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Originally Posted by tadpole256 Quote: |
Originally Posted by Axiom Quote: |
Originally Posted by tadpole256 Quote: |
Originally Posted by Axiom OOP--I wonder if the Founding Fathers had fetus' rights in mind while they wrote the Constitution. I think interpretation of the Constitution is required when it comes to fetus' rights. An honest question: did they have abortion back then?
Axiom--What can clearly be discerned by the V and XIV Amendments are that no person(s)/human(s) life is taken without "Due Process". It doesn't matter if they were considering zygote, fetus, mentally handicapped, etc...when writing these two amendments. LIFE, Liberty, and Property of a person was their concern.
They didn't determine degrees of LIFE; stages of LIFE; or quality of the LIFE, only that LIFE was protected from being taken without "Due Process". They were very particular about these points, otherwise why write two seperate amendments protecting them? | But you said persons / humans... Many people (including myself) do not consider a fetus to be either... So that blasts your argument right out of the water... | Then as I challenged OOP, I challenge you...define "person". And, if you cannot adequately define it (no one has, but good luck anyway) then as I said before..."Due Process" is established to "err on the safe side" the Court should have and must eventually do the same. | Easy... One you emerge from your mothers Vagina, ALIVE, you are a person... | That would illegalize thousands of abortions alone. So killing a mother and her baby near full term would only constitute one crime and not a second?
From a legal aspect:
Criteria for personhood
The above points seem to indicate that there may be persons that are not human, and there may be humans that are not persons. For these reasons, many philosophers have tried to give a more precise definition, focusing on some trait or traits that all persons, real and hypothetical, must possess.
The most obvious such trait that persons typically possess is a conscious mind, typically (but not necessarily) with plans, goals, desires, hopes, fears, and so on. Yet the claim that such a mind is necessary for personhood is also problematic, as most would consider human babies as persons, yet their minds do not seem sufficiently advanced to satisfy this condition. A few philosophers have simply accepted that babies are not persons. However, most have not. Instead, some have suggested that the potential for such a mind is the correct trait.
Yet another view is that personhood is not all-or-nothing: there can be degrees of personhood, based on how close to a fully working mind the object in question has. Thus, a typical adult is entirely a person, while a human permanently in a coma is not a person at all. This view also seems to have some unpleasant consequences, for example, that a young child or someone with a moderate mental handicap might be, say, only half a person (and perhaps therefore have only half the rights, or be regarded as half as important). Jean Vanier, who has spent most of his life working and living with people with learning disabilities, has suggested that the capacity to be loved is what makes a true person.
It is probably true to say that other views also exist, and that the debate is not close to being resolved. http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Person \"I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him.\"--Abraham Lincoln |