Well, I think words do have an effect, there's no doubt in my mind about that.

But with all due respect to Tristan, I think he's falling back on a common tactic of the gay-rights movement -- and one that I think will eventually backfire on it.

I'm not really comforatable talking "about" other posters in direct terms. So, as tempted as I am. It think I'll refrain from it.

I'll just say I've yet to see anyting on these boards that describes homosexual people themselves as "subhuman," or "lesser" or whatever.

Have some people put things more bluntly than I might have? Yes. But as far as people being "hateful?"

No, I don't see it. Other than some personal jabs (which often go both ways). I've honestly not seen it.

Again, I see this coming from the gay rights movement all too often. People will say something "negative" about homosexuality, and it will get politicized and twisted into a personal attack on the gay people themselves.

I think the hysteria over Dr. Laura a few years ago is a classic example of this. And ironically it was a lesbian, political commentator Tammy Bruce, who saw through it and stepped up to defend Dr. Laura's right to express herself without being smeared as "hateful."

The gay rights movement simply MUST learn the difference between disagreement, a difference of opinion, disapproval and actual HATE. By slapping the "hate" label on everything, the gays eventually start to look hysterical, extreme and themselves intollerant.

The argument "your thoughts/words cause people to be hurt/killed" is, IMO, in itself an iron fist in an not-so-thick velvet glove, which smacks of simply wanting those who disagree with you to shut up.. or perhaps even BE shut up.

I'm sorry if my words here have offended anybody, but I do honestly feel very strongly about this. I've also come to respect and yes -- as much as one can know others simply through postings/photos on an internet forum -- come to really like some of the posters here. And I certainly don't DIS-like anybody here.

I sincerly hope we can contiue to have these discussions without getting too nasty or losing the basic affection I think all humans should have for one another.