Quote:
Originally Posted by sear 
I understand the nature of this friction.
To the believer, the "antagonism" of the disbeliever can seem destructive, perhaps paranoid.
But it is hardly that simple. The believer might pretend their religion is just a harmless exercise, a comfortable excuse to dress up, & go to meetin'.
Unfortunately, that's absolute fiction.
So many of the destructive inflictions imposed upon Americans by Americans, trace their roots directly or indirectly to religion in general, and perhaps Christianity in particular.
Perhaps the most obvious example of this is the unrelenting clamor to further infringe or usurp a woman's right of choice.
Also obvious, the battle against same sex marriage; essentially a disregard for equality under law.
Both of these hotly contested efforts to impose religious morals upon unwilling others have the sticky, tainted fingerprints of the Religious right all over them.
The badly fragmented coalition of the rational battle these superstitious looneys, not out of sport; but out of absolute necessity.
The Religious right poses a greater threat to the Liberty of U.S. citizens than Usama bin Laden does.
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I would say the "tolerant" left poses just as great a threat. Observe infringements upon free speech/expression in Canada and Europe as evidence.
The fact that you call your "side" the "rational" and the other "superstitious looneys" speaks volumes, and smacks of intolerance and narrow-mindedness on your part.
Your arguments could also be easily reversed on you. As secular humanists, with no basis in objective morality, seek constantly to undermine the values and fabric of our society by trying to indoctrinate us into a flippant acceptance of the atrocity of abortion and/or the abnormality of homosexuality.
Now, personally, I fall somewhere in between. I'm all for abortion remaining legal and safe. But don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining -- abortion is killing, pure and simple. As such, it can't be dismissed as lightly as "a woman's right to choose." After all she, and a man, made the "choice" to begin a new life by doing the horizontal bop without taking proper precautions.
Likewise, I'm all for gays having basic right, including the right to partner up for life and have it legally recognized. But again, efforts to "re-educate" society into accpeting it all as hunky-dory and normal trouble me. And don't try to shut me up for thinking or saying so.
Anyway, I hear shrill, hysterical things coming from BOTH sides on these issues, and each is telling me the other is full of essentially wicked people that want to run my life for me. The irony is, IMO, they each would happily run my life if I would just roll over and let them.
As to your other arguments, well, it's the same old circle. I see "shreds", mountains and oceans of evidence everywhere. I'm not sure what some atheists would consider "evidence" anyway... maybe God's driver's license?
Personally, again, I don't care a toss either way. Either you see it, or you don't.
Atheists like to rant and rave about how much damage religion has done. Well, sure, there's been plenty done in the NAME of religion. But there's an old saying, "don't blame ideas for some of the people who believe in them."
Religion is a big target.. a huge one, in fact. So, in that aspect, the atheists have it easy. They are a small minority on the outside. It's easy to take cheap shots where you're in the peanut gallery. Esp. if there really ARE people in the big group making the whole group look like jackasses.
And I don't see that atheism has done much for anybody, really. But I do know that materialsim has done plenty of harm. Even most religion in this day and age is ultimately materialistic.
The notion that people don't have spiritual needs (because we're simply bio-mechanical creatures, another species of animal, if you will) has and will continue to fail miserably. Our society is rife with isolation, despondency and we've got medication coming out our ears. All that comes from this notion that people are just a bundle of desires... meet human desires.. through nifty science and rational thought, and everything will be great!
Yeah... right...
Human beings are spiritual creatures, and if we don't adress that, we'll NEVER be truely happy or see our full potential, IMO.