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Originally Posted by mytmouse57  Gagetory,
Your observations are astute, but at the same time, rather cliche.
It's the same old fight, IMO, between religious literalism and literal cynicism.
Religion ISN'T ABOUT the literal... was never intended to be.
I couldn't care a toss about whether, for example, Jesus actually did hop up out of the grave after three days. Now, I wasn't there, so I can't know for sure. But everything from my basic logic and reason to my gut feelings tell me it did not literally happen that way, and the "resurection" has a symbolic, spiritual meaning.
Either way, getting hung up on stuff like that is, IMO, totally beside the point anyhow. Not to be crude, but it's sort of along the same lines of focusing on a date's boobs, instead of trying to get to know her as an actual person.
Yes, people do detestible things in the name of religion. Then again, people do horrible things in the name of all sorts of things. People will do horrible things and say it was out of a love for the country.
Does that make the U.S.A. a horrible place, or our system of government and the principles of this nation horrible?
Anyway, I think it's just the fact that some people are the type who will do horrible things. And if they didn't have religion to justify it, they'd find some other justification.
As far as the whole life after death thing... well, it just makes sense to me that there's more to us than our bio-mechanical functions. It always has, even before I became a particularly religious person. Sure, it's not anything you can pinpoint, or put into a test tube, or hold in your hand and say, "here it is."
But then again, I think it's rather short-sighted and naive to think that which transcends our physical existance would have physical properties to begin with.
Sure, I could be wrong. But, even if there's nothing after death... well, then it's kind of stupid to be afraid of nothing, now isn't it?
But, until I see more compelling arguments than I've seen so far from the strict materialist side, I'm convinced there IS something after death.. and that it's not at all unpleasant. Will it involve a reckoning? Well, sure. Again, that just makes sense. But unless you're a Hitler or a Jeffery Dahmer, I don't think that reckoning will be all that horrible bad for anybody who made an honest effort to do their best.
As a side note, I once watched a program invovling a talk by a woman who was clinically dead for quite some time describing what she experienced of the "afterlife." She said that the reckoning included the rather interesting feature of experiencing everyting one had done to others from the perspective of the others. In other words, if you had been mean to somebody, you would feel your own meanness from their point of view. She said that during that experience, she learned one of the most valuable things she'd done with her life up to that point was something that at the time seemed rather insignifigant. She had during her time in school been nice and friendly and displayed a genuine interest in a retarded boy who everybody else either made fun of or ignored.
See, now that sort of thing makes absolute sense to me. If there is an afterlife, it makes perfect sense that it would involve things like that.
But people on the "good" list going to bliss and people on the "bad" list suffering for ever and ever... no, that makes no sense. |
A cliche exists because at its base is truth. You are correct what I said from all points of logic is true.
I spent 13 years in Catholic School, served on the Alter was an acolite and have a degree in theology..to assume that because I don't have the need to explain my entire reason for being by virtue of an unprovaen supernatural power is an assumption you should stop making.
Religion isn't suppose to be literal. How do you know this?? Because I fear there are billions of people who differ all of whom are religious. Lets take Christianity: you now claim people don't literally think that God put his only son to death so as to save them from their sins??? The You make the like Creligious apologetists argument that its not menat to be literal because knowledge has shown us much of the Bible is complete nonsensical unproven stories of dubious origin. The bible is taken as literal by many people..Lets leave out the religious fanatics who think NO went under because of our support of 'homosexuality' and look in other places because that example is way to obvious. The LRA in Uganda took the Bible literally and decided that they would make the immediate region into a place that obeyed to the letter the 10 Commandments, as a result they turned into a Christain Khmer Rouge and are in part responsible for the things now occuring in Darfur, they were funded by the Sudanese and the LRA waged a war of the power to do so they literally drew from the Bible. Why did God not illuminate them as to the fact it wasn't suppose to be literal?? Did he just forget about them?? Seems strange for an omipresent being
I too experienced being dead clinically for a short period of time when I was 17 and I saw nothing I was robbed. But that aside human decency is not drawn from relgion rather religion was written to suit human decency. You should use Ockhams Razor more productively.
Like all religious apologists you claim there is a God but then anything that is bad is mans fault. God things occur and God did it. If we are made in Gods image and are imperfect then God is not perfect either.
I have the right to question my Government and I can control (as far as anyone is able) who is in control. Alternatively religion is an Authoritarian regime in which people do not get a say you either believe the doctrine of whatever sect you belong to or you don't..stop comparing the secular with the religious because you simply cannot..you can't compare the natural with he supernatural and claim they are the same thing...the simple fact there are sects and no-one can agree on what God is should provide enough evidence in an unto itself that God is made to suit the culture not God created society to suit himself
And you can believe anything you want I never said you couldn't but belief is not now nor will it ever be fact. Its not even a theory, its a personally held thought, one you share with many other people, although you can't all seem to agree on what the afterlife is. Why would God promise you something then not explain what it is?? Because as you say the Bible isn't literal so we can't rely on it to give us a clear picture of what God intends or even says or even why we are here..which seems strange in so far as the Bible as well as all other relgious texts claim to answer all those questions...if there is a God it seems like a bit of a dick.
How convienient that anything we know is impossible you have reduced to a symbollic meaning.. Its good you know that what you see in the Resurection is just symbollic because none fo the 4 Gospels agree as to what actually happened. Given that the death and rising of Jesus is the reason the relgion exists so as to save us from our sins you'd think that they'd have gotten the stories correct or at least similar.
I don't need to believe their is an afterlife for me to be a good person. I am a good person regardless of some reckoning. But if you need to believe this so as to give yourself purpose good for you..not trying to stop you I just wonder why any educated person woudl need to believe in the rantings of people who sought to explain what they couldn't explain when I can now explain why without having to resort to believing in something that isn't a fact.
You said people do horrible things and use religion to justify it but if there was no religion they'd use somethign else. The point is there is religion and when they envoke religious belief old men get to suck young babies penises even though in the secular world we think this is a prison worthy offence.
I don't get why you need to add all this un-neccesary thought to your life. Religion is the source of almost every violent act (major and minor) in history please stop pretending people don't take it literally and haven't since they first conceived of explaining a Flood in the Nile Delta by way of Noah building a giant ass boat to save all the animals and then everyone married their cousins to repopulate the world I guess...