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Old 08-30-2007, 07:06 AM   #34 (permalink)
hkbajwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccvasquez View Post
As far as the "imposing democracy on others" argument. I think this is rather like imposing prosperity or security or freedom. It is hardly an imposition when the majority of the people desire these things. And we are going to facilitate their having them.
Well first of all there is a marked difference. Freedom cannot be IMPOSED, it can be GRANTED or it can be ACHIEVED. TO IMPOSE freedom is to NOT ALLOW PEOPLE to NOT BE FREE. I know it sounds absolutely crazy that anybody would do that, but then again who are WE to say?

Secondly nobody ever IMPOSED PROSPERITY. THat too is something that you EARN and FIGHT for, but it is NEVER IMPOSED.

Likewise Democracy cannot be IMPOSED. IT can perhaps be helped along by empowering people to CLAIM IT, but it is not something that can be imposed. TO IMPOSE it is a complete negation of democratic principles which dictate that any action must be taken ACCORDING TO THE STATED WISHE OF THE PEOPLE.

I would like to consider the following. We know global warming is a FACT. We know that the US is ruining its own environment. This is something that the WORLD agrees on. SO now how would you feel if an external power enters your sovereign territory, shuts down your auto factories, and denies the republicans the right to participate in elections ( connection to big oil and car companies).
THe FACT is that it would do the US a lot of good. In fact it is probable that you would reach this level on your own and that even the Reps will move away from their denial of scientific fact. However there would be a WORLD of difference if you did it on your own OR if you were forced to by an outside power. The former would be your right as a nation ( even if it destroys your climate and nature) yet the latter would undoubtedly be good for you.

YOu can try and separate the West's killings from that of the terrorists, but i cannot understand how you can sanitize one and villify the other. The West simply kills TENS OF THOUSANDS more civilians than do terrorist actions. Sure you have your smart bombs ( and your napalm) but ultimately your forces are responsible for more death and destruction than are the terrorist. YOu cannot deny that.

So i find it reprehensible that you can IGNORE the deaths caused by the West ( they used tanks and shells and other expensive equipment so its OK ) yet flip your lid when desperate people do desperate things.

Killing is wrong no matter what. And it doesn't matter if your president sent you in a tank or whether your fundo mullah sent you with a vest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccvasquez View Post
Please do not even try to say that the Iraqi people preferred life under Sadam Hussein. That would only serve to expose you as not being serious.
Well according to a recent BBC study of 2000 families in Baghdad, they clearly indicated that life is MUCH WORSE after the US invaded the country. So maybe you will find Kat to be non-serious.. but how about families that live in the thick of things? Will you belive THEM when they say things were better under Saddam?
Love for all, Hatred for none