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Originally Posted by Zack  So do you think that a fully developed child is a human being or not? If a child isn't born then it isn't a human being? When you were born, I hope you made it to term, you were developed and capable of becoming what you are today... but let's say your mom's doctor just chopped your head off before you took your first breath considering your feet came out first... would he be a murderer? What is the difference between that and partial birth abortion? When do you think society should protect you or your baby should you become pregnant if there were some doctors running around with a dark chocolate sense of humor? Is it OK in the first trimester... second... when does society say you are worthy of being considered human and being protected? If a punk comes up and stabs a pregnant woman in the womb and kills a baby at what point is it murder? | There is a consensus in society that one becomes a full-fledged member of society at birth. Before that there is no consensus. Quote:
That is all BS and you damn well know it, sex, pregnancy and childbirth are totally separate from home, health care and other modern medicine. Nature is an example of nature where other mammals in the wild do not require any of the things you mention to survive. Advances in medicine, food production, housing and other contributing factors have advanced shelf life of humans but have nothing to do with the issue of selection of life or death of a possible adult member of the human race. To end pregnancy is to alter nature. To be cel1bant is to alter nature. If nature gave the woman choice in the matter it would be only in the form of rejection of the male counterpart. If all women would choose not to carry a child then the human race would end, clearly this is not nature's plan for humans and to consider it as an occasional trend isn't an option.
A man and a woman could be stranded on an island with none of the things you mention and produce a child. Yours is an illogical argument.
| It is true that a woman can sometimes give birth with no medical intervention and mother and child both survive. It is also true that they may either one or both die without medical care. There really is no danger that ALL women will choose not to bear children. If such a thing did happen what would it matter? THE EFFECTS OF PREGNANCY - complications of pregnancy Every minute of every day, somewhere in the world, most often in a developing nation, a woman dies from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth. Maternal mortality is so high in the developing world (1 in 4 that it is customary for Tanzanian women about to give birth to bid farewell to their older children. -- Michele Landsberg, TORONTO STAR, Sat., Sept. 30, 2000, p. L1 "U.N. Executive Council Fights Inequality With Shocking Facts and Figures" Pregnancy/childbirth was a leading cause of death of American women of childbearing age at the turn of the century. It remains a leading cause of death of women in many countries in the world. All pregnant women, by virtue of their pregnant status, face some level of maternal risk. Data suggest that around 40% of all pregnant women have some complication.
About 15% ... [have complications] that are potentially life-threatening The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
--Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis |