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Originally Posted by Katczinsky You know what, those of you that have not studied political science, or foreign policy for that matter wouldn't understand. What I'm sick of is a select few that serve in the military and because so, believe they have all the answers and have the right to talk condescendingly to civilians just because they haven't been indoctrinated that killing is alright and had the chance to shoot someone. So many of our military forget their place in society. I honor those that have served in our military, esspecially those that have sacraficed in just wars against the totalitarian tyranny in Europe, and brutal Japanese Imperialism in the Pacific. But its supposed to be just that, a defensive force, something to defend freedom, democracy, and our way of life as Americans; NOT to force it down the throats of others my friend. |
Well I am that rare breed, because I have served, and I have studied political science and foreign policy. However, our soldiers do not set the agenda when it comes to policy. They unfortunately have to be the ones that clean up the messes that politicians make. Well you celebrate the just wars against totalitarian tryanny in Europe, that is all well and fine, from you statement then, I take it you don't justify wars against totalitarian tryanny elsewhere??? The idea of defensive war is noble, that one should only fight when attacked. So how many more Spetember 11th should we have to sit through? Power politics supposes that a country is going to do what is in their best interest, utilizing the capabiliites that the country has to best support its security. Our current policy is that we will use when necessary preemptive attacks to defen our nation. Rather than sit back and wait until we are attacked, we suppose that we will attack before we are attacked. I am sure that the 3000 people who perished on September 11th would have like the idea of this policy had it been implented prior to that day. But since it was not, they paid the price with their lives. Our policy is deliberate to make sure that we as a nation will not have to face another tragedy like again.
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky I'm sorry, but once the military has began to go on the offensive, as well as hold its own civilians (those who they are supposed to be protecting) in contempt, then you have a jackboot military state my friend. And its not even the entire military I speak of, there are many out there that understand the societal position, and creating purpose of an Armed Forces that currently serve in ranks. My brother whom is in the Marine Corps is all to aware of this. |
The disdain members of the military have towards civilians was created by the civilians themselves. The populaces disdain for the war in Vietnam spread to the soldiers. It was they who spat on the soldiers, who disrupted their funerals, who threw shit on returning soldiers, and who called them baby killers and murderers. It was civilians, many of whom, were secure in the college campuses thanks to mommy and daddy.
I remember all that time I spent at Fort Bragg, listening to the local civilians saying that they did not need those of us n the military. Some many of them tired of the way local businesses favored the military over civilians. Wellm they got their wish during the first Gulf War, Fort Bragg deployed, pretty much the whole post. Many of the wives and children went home to be with family. Fayetteville ground to a halt. When we returned 10 months later, so many businesses had gone belly up, Kmart, a national chain store was only able to be opened from 10 am to 2 pm in our absence. They sang a different tune when we returned, but we all recalled the tune that they had been singing.
You said that the military needs to recognize its place in our society. And what place is that?? It was the military that secured the liberties that all citizens enjoy today. It is the military that protects those liberties to this day. The military doesn't ask much in return some simple respect. Instead, the military is time and again judged by the few bad apples in the ranks. The military gives up many of its freedoms, yes they can vote, but it is frowned upon if they take part in political rallies or campaigning for a candidate. Many will in a moments notice pick up their bags and leave their families for Lord knows how long to do their jobs. So what exactly is our place in society again???
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky You're too quick to jump to the propaganda-image of "liberation", where of coarse nothing bad happens. We're over there "spreading freedom dust!", everyone's handing out candy and making the locals smile with joy that their saviors have come! Well its time to face the truth, as well as history my friend. That cover-up has been the excuse of every occupying tyrant in human history. You're too quick to jump on the idea that the Iraqis were under tyranny under Saddam, and now are perfectly unoppressed now that the "God-backed" Americans are here! No, its time to actually face what the Iraqis view on this war. Indeed Saddam was a brutal tyrant, striking down dissent where he could. But you have to remember that it was the Americans that supported this brutal tyrant while he was doing this, you have to remember that it was the Americans that supplied Saddam with weapons including chemical to use on both military and innocent Iranians. You have to remember it was the Americans giving direct aid to the brutal dictator even during and after he massacred his own civilians. |
Aren't you now the one ignoring your political science studies???? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We supported Iraq over Iran, because Iran had an anti-American/anti-West faction in control of their government. Remember, it was Iran who held Americans working in the Embassy hostage for some 400-plus days. President Reagan rejected the Breshnev Doctrine, and supported those nations that were opposed to the spread of communism. If you want to argue history, then include it all, don't focus on single aspects. Come what has happened to your study of political science, you threw it out in this argument.
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky And again I say that if you have not studied the political science, and foreign policy that this particular administration takes, you would not understand. This administration has had a history of being in neoconservative organizations, esspecially the vice president, Donald Rumsfuck, and understecratary Paul Wolfowitz whom was completely dazed believing Saddam did 9/11 all along. They describe their own doctrine, not me, to use force to keep American Dominance in the world and to spread its ideals. With a rising "United States of Europe", a recovering Russia, and a rising in-need-of-oil China, the United States had to secure the oil reserves in the Middle East. Its oversimplistic to say that 'why couldn't we have just lifted the sanctions', or 'if it was about oil then why are the gas prices so high?' Because if you knew enough about this administration's true policies, that is neoconservatism, it is not about getting the oil, but rather controlling to oil so the US can throw its weight this way and that way, undermining OPEC, and having a big upper hand against Europe and China.
And it just so happens that the oil companies have record breaking profits. It just 'so happens' that the US forces secured the oil fields before alleged Iraqi chemical, biological, and other WMD 'factories'. |
Once again you ignore power politics. For someone who claims we should study political science, it seems that you have done a well job of it yourself. Throwing around labels and then trying to presuppose motives fails you. We have the option of being secure in our own borders and playing the role of isolationists, or we have the responsibliltity of being a world player. Obviously since our country has the largest economy we have a need to be in the world market. Why should are government not act in what is the best interest of our country?? Or should our country be subservant to the needs of others?? Part of policy is determine which course out country will take, the one we are on, places the priorities of our nation over that of other nations, call it neoconservative or whatever you like, our leaders realize that what is in our best interest is to have democracy spread, because the McDonald's factor is in play.
As an industrialized nation we require oil for our industries, our energy production, and our citizens. One would say that if our country government did not seek to have a control in oil, then they are failing the citizens. So, it seems that the government is taking an active interest, that is why the middle east has been a concern for so long. OPEC has long controlled the price and cost of oil, why should that monoploy not be broken??? We seem to hate so much in our own country when someone controls the market, why not apply that disdain to others? Or is it only right to do it in our own country. Come now, where is the political science study??
dmk