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Originally Posted by FrednTexas  I never stated that punishment should be given into the hands of the people. It should be administered by the state, with the active participation of the public. |
But can you really administer public beating by members of the public? How do you judge that a beating has gone "far enough"? It's too vague.
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Originally Posted by FrednTexas Whether you like it or not, if you want to hide behind a mask of "civility" the government is an arm of the people, and all the punishments prescribed by law, are prescribed to be "Public." That is, according to the law, all punishments should be carried out by the state, and in full view of the public!
A lot of people confuse being civilized, with being too soft on criminals. |
Well violence is in itself a primitive reaction. Searching for and trying to deal with the ROOT CAUSE of crime is civilized. Beating the crap out of something you don't like is ineffective and frankly a selfish thing to do. Resorting to violence is ALWAYS EASIER than dealing with the root cause. And it serves no purpose other than easing the conscience of society for a limited period of time.
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Originally Posted by FrednTexas Sure the child rapist was probably raped himself as a child. That was when he was a child, and if he still is a child, then a different course should be applied, as it is now. However, according to the law, an adult knows the difference between right and wrong, regardless of his background, at least to the point that he can, and should be held accountable for his crime.
I disagree that it is usually a crime of opportunity. I have spent many hours with these individuals, and understand that they intend no harm to the child, however they go about it, the act of love for them, is an act of violence for the child. They don't get this. That in their "love," they are completely overwhelming a child. Then the cycle continues, that child, when he grows up, takes his revenge, not on the adult that did this to him, rather, he chooses another child, around the same age, and commits the same crime against this child. |
You are right about the twisted rationalization in most pedophiles heads. But if they are this messed up and willing to go to extreme lengths to feed their needs, do you really think increasing the degree of punishment will change anything?
And secondly, what is the point of retribution when the crime has already been committed. Your solution does not do much to prevent the things that CAUSE people to develop twisted notions of love. All it does is soothe the anger and frustration felt by being violent to a human being. A human being , i might add, that is entirely the product of his society and of circumstance.
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Originally Posted by FrednTexas I don't know you, and I wonder about you saying that you disagree with "public" punishment of a crime, but it was ok for your father to "beat the crap" out of the molestor. That was indeed public, and an example of the public taking the prosecution of the crime out of the hands of the criminal justice system, completely. One last thing. |
Yeah but the funny thing was that i actually asked my father to stop. I knew he loved me and that i did nothing wrong. It really had nothing to do with the dude.. I mean the reason i asked my father to stop was not because i had a "stockholm syndrome" type of reaction. I just did not want violence perpetrated because of me. A kid just wants the threat GONE and his parents to care and comfort him. Children have no place for venegance, and i don't think society should absolve themselves from the guilt of being unable to protect a child by resorting to violence.
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Originally Posted by FrednTexas Most of the people who cry for excusing the behavior of a criminal type, are contemplating that behavior in themselves. Most molestors were molested themselves. I, sir, would never trust you to be alone with my child. No offense to you, but it just wouldn't be worth the risk. I'd hate to have to "beat the crap out of you." |
Way to make a guy feel creepy dude. Thanks. Of course i understand your concerns, but you should know a few things:
1) The BIGGEST battle a rape or molestation victim faces is whether to reveal the crime or not. Many DON'T.. For precisely the above mentioned reason. Reactions like that make the victim feel like a criminal. Children are told to shut up and stop "lying", and women are told to shut up to maintain honor/social status or whatever.
Because i came to terms with what happened to me and managed to move past it, i have never had any real problem revealing to people that i was molested. But i have consistently ALL MY LIFE been warned against telling people. Quite simply because in a case like this, the victim is AS LIKELY to be condemned as the perpetrator. Now that CERTAINLY doesn't help ANYBODY.
2) Just because one human wishes to understand and reveal the ROOT CAUSE for despicable behaviour of another human is NOT AN ENDORSEMENT. In fact it is PRECISELY the fact that i have experienced this form of assault that i understand what matters to a victim. In fact it is also why i am more suited to guard a child from such an experience AND comfort and protect a child if such an awful thing happened to them.
3) Again this ties into the punitive suggestions you have made. It is not possible to formulate a punishment without involving the victim. Very often the first step to getting over a trauma is forgiveness. Now don't get me wrong. I don't feel sorry for child molesters. However i don't think your suggestions at consider the needs of the victims. LOike i said, venegance is more the requirement of the family and friends of a a victim, because they are angry at their own inability to prevent an awful crime.
I would like to add that while i can speak of this experience without anger, i am IN NO WAY apologising or justifying this type of behaviour. I am probably more than you interested in ensuring that this shit never happens again. I have NO IDEA if i could be forgiving if such a thing happened to my own children. But it really truly sucks that a person in unable to reveal such a thing about themselves without being labeled immediately.
If you only knew the frequency of child sexual abuse you would get down on your knees and cry for all the children who have been robbed of their childhood. That's what this experience does you know. Not in the sense that kids stop playing and laughing. But their eyes are opened to the world way before their time. And once opened they never close. This is incidentally why victims of child abuse tend to have higher EQs. They simply become "aware" of the world outside themselves earlier than other children.
Anyhow i can GUARANTEE that there are victims among your friends, family, co-workers that you are unaware of. That's an awful thought.
You know what else? It is when a victim fears condemnation from society that they tend to rationalize the abuse and from there it is only a small step to become a molester yourself. Think about that.