Originally Posted by Katczinsky

Braindead ideas? I'm coming up with ideas that will best solve the problem. And my ideas aren't presented only by liberals, but even some of the most conservative of us. On the other hand, xenophobes like yourself only look on the surface and provide expensive yet completely ineffective means at curbing illegal immigration; specifically building huge walls, military mobilizations, and internment/slave labor programs. You have to attack the root of the problem if you ever want to solve this. Providing worker passes like the European Union does would be a good place to start, at least. Perhaps the only thing I agree with Bush on.



The founders certainly didn't say "so what". But they in fact ingrained the concept of unalienable rights into our very foundation, law, and heritage as Americans. They didn't just see English tyranny in America as a violation of these rights, but they also see violation of these rights in any country as a violation of sense and reason. I can see that the very premise of your argument is ingrained in, and fully is dependent upon your complete contempt for liberals. I don't care if you think liberalism is the root of all evil, but don't let it cloud your judgment on things that have nothing to do with it.

I never said I want to help 'the illegal' get here and stay, and I certainly didn't say we should do this at the expense of American families. Actually, if I recall, I think I said illegal immigrants being here are a benefit to American families. Despite your contempt for them, most of them are well-intentioned, and are amazing people and very determined workers. They're happy to have jobs that American families would think as hell to have. The American system, being capitalism, isn't all peachy and flowers. Capitalism survives on the existence of the cheap labor and the poor workers. Without people willing to do those jobs, our system collapses. I'm not saying that all of those positions are filled by illegal immigrants, I'm just saying that the sudden disappearance of these immigrants could spell dire economic consequences; effecting American families along with the lives of the immigrants and their families.



That's nice. When you're off your nationalist and personal ego high, let me know so we can debate this topic with some civility and without mindless (and undoubtedly irrelevant) assumptions.