Abortion IS murder - Page 3

aMFliberal · 12-28-2005, 08:00 PM

There are limititations on abortions and I believe they are for late-term abortions. I think the ban is on the third trimester...so after 6 months a woman can not get an abortion. I'm not sure on if that is exactly how it is right now. I think whenever the question comes down to when it's just cells and when a human is formed it just turns into a lot of confusion. I don't think abortions should be used as birth control, but that is also not my decision unless I am directly involved with the pregnancy. That is the basic reason why there is a constitutional right to privacy, and thus a woman's right to an abortion. We can give moral advice, but trying to mandate those morals necessarily creates too much conflict between the law and the right to privacy, not to mention that the prevailing moral outlooks on abortion, if the discussions on this site are any indicator, span far too wide of a range for Congress to honestly put them into law.

Nebraskaboy · 12-28-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

Morally, yes abortion is killing a human. As I had stated in a post a few months ago, the rights of both the mother and child must be supported...

I see abortion as necessary, unfortuantely. NB makes a good point about the whores, though. Abortion should NOT be used as birth control. It's a wasted. Use a damned pill. However, the leeway must be made for the couples that have an accident...because no child deserves to be thrown into a foster home where they don't stand much of a chance of doing any better.

I think if a couple is taking the appropriate precautions (BC, condom, etc), then a woman needn't more than a couple abortions in a year...if even that many. Perhaps there should be a limit? Hell, you mustbe doing something wrong if you're getting pregnant every few months. It's not hard to be careful.

I assume that when you say, "Morally, yes abortion is killing a human" that you mean because an abortion prevents a human from being born and ends the fetus's chance for life outside the mother--essentially and morally, it is killing a human. However, because nobody can ever know if an aborted fetus would have lived beyond the day of its abortion, or survived birth, or even made it to birth, we can never truthfully or honestly say with conviction that the abortion ended a life that would have been. Therefore your premise is false and your subsequent call for the "child's rights" is also incorrect because there is not, was not, and never will be a child.

I'm not sure if you took NB literally or not. I don't know if NB was specifically talking about prostitutes when he said "whores" or if he was just referring to easy women. I thought he was talking about irresponsible, perhaps "easy" women who do not take the necessary precautions to protect themselves from pregagnancy. Both NB's post and yours have a convienient lack of responsibility or culpability from the other sex. Niether post even remotely suggests fault on the male's side and niether post calls for responsibility from the male in the decision to have an abortion. You condemn "whores" and tell them to use "the damned pill" and say the government should prevent abortions used as birth control. But then, in a very ballsy move if I say so myself, you go on to say that responsible couples who have "accidents" must be given leeway because children do not deserve to be thrown in foster homes. Well, if you don't let the "whores" get abortions, where do you think the children are going?...Foster homes

My post was mainly out of anger that anyone could support such an atrocity. Still, I blame both sexes, I put most of the blame on women because honestly, they are the ones who control sex and should not have sexual intercourse unless their partner uses some sort of protection. Yet, we let these women continue to try to fix their mistakes by killing an innocent human being because they fucked up, its disgusting.

RidinHighSpeeds · 12-28-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

However, within 2 months (maybe less?) nerves have started to form along with other tissues. Before that point, do whatever you want.

I'm with ya buddy. However I would limit it to 2-3 weeks in order to get an abortion. 2 months is waaay too late!

RidinHighSpeeds · 12-28-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy

My post was mainly out of anger that anyone could support such an atrocity. Still, I blame both sexes, I put most of the blame on women because honestly, they are the ones who control sex and should not have sexual intercourse unless their partner uses some sort of protection. Yet, we let these women continue to try to fix their mistakes by killing an innocent human being because they fucked up, its disgusting.

Good point Nebraskaboy. If anyone is going to bring in the case of rape, molestation, or whatever; yes let that be an exception to get an abortion.

Don't confuse this post with my previous post. I am just coming up with many different ideas here...If A, then B.

aMFliberal · 12-29-2005, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy

My post was mainly out of anger that anyone could support such an atrocity. Still, I blame both sexes, I put most of the blame on women because honestly, they are the ones who control sex and should not have sexual intercourse unless their partner uses some sort of protection. Yet, we let these women continue to try to fix their mistakes by killing an innocent human being because they fucked up, its disgusting.

Did it ever occur to you that it is just as much the man's duty to wear protection? It is just as much the man's responsibility that pregnancy is avoided. Just because the man does not physically have the pregnancy or the abortion does not absolve him from equal amounts of responsibility. I can not imagine a situation where sex ended up in pregnancy, both partners did not want pregnancy, and the blame ends up somehow more on the woman's side.

tadpole256 · 12-29-2005, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

However, within 2 months (maybe less?) nerves have started to form along with other tissues. Before that point, do whatever you want.

I'm with ya buddy. However I would limit it to 2-3 weeks in order to get an abortion. 2 months is waaay too late!

But at the same time, you don't want to overly rush anyone into making a very major, life-altering, and permanent decision...

tyreay · 12-29-2005, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

Morally, yes abortion is killing a human. As I had stated in a post a few months ago, the rights of both the mother and child must be supported...

I see abortion as necessary, unfortuantely. NB makes a good point about the whores, though. Abortion should NOT be used as birth control. It's a wasted. Use a damned pill. However, the leeway must be made for the couples that have an accident...because no child deserves to be thrown into a foster home where they don't stand much of a chance of doing any better.

I think if a couple is taking the appropriate precautions (BC, condom, etc), then a woman needn't more than a couple abortions in a year...if even that many. Perhaps there should be a limit? Hell, you mustbe doing something wrong if you're getting pregnant every few months. It's not hard to be careful.

I assume that when you say, "Morally, yes abortion is killing a human" that you mean because an abortion prevents a human from being born and ends the fetus's chance for life outside the mother--essentially and morally, it is killing a human. However, because nobody can ever know if an aborted fetus would have lived beyond the day of its abortion, or survived birth, or even made it to birth, we can never truthfully or honestly say with conviction that the abortion ended a life that would have been. Therefore your premise is false and your subsequent call for the "child's rights" is also incorrect because there is not, was not, and never will be a child.

I'm not sure if you took NB literally or not. I don't know if NB was specifically talking about prostitutes when he said "whores" or if he was just referring to easy women. I thought he was talking about irresponsible, perhaps "easy" women who do not take the necessary precautions to protect themselves from pregagnancy. Both NB's post and yours have a convienient lack of responsibility or culpability from the other sex. Niether post even remotely suggests fault on the male's side and niether post calls for responsibility from the male in the decision to have an abortion. You condemn "whores" and tell them to use "the damned pill" and say the government should prevent abortions used as birth control. But then, in a very ballsy move if I say so myself, you go on to say that responsible couples who have "accidents" must be given leeway because children do not deserve to be thrown in foster homes. Well, if you don't let the "whores" get abortions, where do you think the children are going?...Foster homes

My post was mainly out of anger that anyone could support such an atrocity. Still, I blame both sexes, I put most of the blame on women because honestly, they are the ones who control sex and should not have sexual intercourse unless their partner uses some sort of protection. Yet, we let these women continue to try to fix their mistakes by killing an innocent human being because they fucked up, its disgusting.

I agree with you Neb, except that birth control is a 50/50 thing. If a man chooses to have sex unprotected is this not the same decision the woman is making?

Tabris · 12-29-2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

However, within 2 months (maybe less?) nerves have started to form along with other tissues. Before that point, do whatever you want.

I'm with ya buddy. However I would limit it to 2-3 weeks in order to get an abortion. 2 months is waaay too late!

But at the same time, you don't want to overly rush anyone into making a very major, life-altering, and permanent decision...

Not only that, I don't think you even know if you're pregnant within 2-3 weeks. I think it's 4 or 5 minimum. By the time 2 months has come by, the nerves and such have already formed, so gives the couple (or mother) a month to decide if she want's to keep it or not. So Ridin, your wish would basically come true :P but I say give them an extra week. Obviously some fetuses develop nerves faster, and others later, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere and I think that's the point where 90% of them have developed nerves.

RidinHighSpeeds · 12-29-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

However, within 2 months (maybe less?) nerves have started to form along with other tissues. Before that point, do whatever you want.

I'm with ya buddy. However I would limit it to 2-3 weeks in order to get an abortion. 2 months is waaay too late!

But at the same time, you don't want to overly rush anyone into making a very major, life-altering, and permanent decision...

Yes, I understand.

We went over the stages of pregnancy over and over again in highschool and college. When it's just a bunch of cells, I think that would be fine. When you have to end a heartbeat, well i'm just against that.

RidinHighSpeeds · 12-29-2005, 01:02 PM

The embryo becomes three layers around the 5th week. The outer layer consists of the brain, nerves, and skin. The middle layer becomes the bones, muscles, blood vessels, heart, and sex organs. The inner layer holds the stomach, liver, intestines, lungs, and urinary tract. The eyes and other features begin to form, as do tiny buds that will be the arms and legs. The heart also forms, and it begins to beat on the 25th day after conception (5 to 6 weeks after the last menstrual period). However, it is impossible to hear the heart beating at this time.

Source:
http://www.med.umich.edu/obgyn/smart...onth/first.htm

Maybe 2-3 weeks?? There are so many very accurate tests out there that people can use to see if they are pregnant. The decision making process can be made in a short amount of time if the couple sat down and had a long talk. There's no need to wait it out when there are nerves, a heartbeat, movement, etc.

I thought I would never be able to support abortion rights. Well I have and i'm saying 2-3 weeks at the max. Maybe this is the closest agreement conservatives and liberals can reach.

12-29-2005, 01:02 PM		#30 (permalink)
	RidinHighSpeeds Website Owner Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Gender: Posts: 5,504 Country: Thanks: 12 Thanked 70 Times in 62 Posts	The embryo becomes three layers around the 5th week. The outer layer consists of the brain, nerves, and skin. The middle layer becomes the bones, muscles, blood vessels, heart, and sex organs. The inner layer holds the stomach, liver, intestines, lungs, and urinary tract. The eyes and other features begin to form, as do tiny buds that will be the arms and legs. The heart also forms, and it begins to beat on the 25th day after conception (5 to 6 weeks after the last menstrual period). However, it is impossible to hear the heart beating at this time. Source: http://www.med.umich.edu/obgyn/smart...onth/first.htm Maybe 2-3 weeks?? There are so many very accurate tests out there that people can use to see if they are pregnant. The decision making process can be made in a short amount of time if the couple sat down and had a long talk. There's no need to wait it out when there are nerves, a heartbeat, movement, etc. I thought I would never be able to support abortion rights. Well I have and i'm saying 2-3 weeks at the max. Maybe this is the closest agreement conservatives and liberals can reach. Networked Web Sites Jon-Kingsbury.com DefendingTheTruth UML Forums

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