how can you be so incredibly stupid? sperm and egg both join to make one thing correct? why should only one of the creators have a say as to the how the creation ends up. the correct answer would be : they both should have a say. BINGO!

Hm, I've been away.

I think saying that the risks are not equal is a strawman. I find that a lot of people seem to ignore a women's choice in birth control. In the hypothetical that I originally gave, a woman made a choice that led to pregnancy. She also has the legal choice of abortion. If she _chooses_ to carry the child to term, then that is her choice and her acceptance of the risks. I don't see why that's relevant to the man.

Basically, the argument seems to be that because the woman chooses a "dangerous" (which is pretty debatable) / risky course of action, then the man is financially responsible. I don't understand why the man should be held finanically responsible for _her_ choice. (the choice here reprsenting whether or not to have an abortion)

Debatable? DEBATABLE?!?!?!?

Care to talk to Ali who is risking her life being pregnant about what is debatable? Care to talk to me who is going to have a life-threatening disease for the rest of my life about what is debatable?

I just love these people who think being pregnant and giving birth is just a walk in the park. Next time you pass a watermelon, then you have something to debate about.

While I agree that the woman made the choice (assuming she wasn't raped) that ultimately led to pregnancy... so did the man.

Men are financially responsible only to the same degree that women are. I love listening to men complain about having to pay child support (and might I remind you that child support is supplemental-it isn't 100% of the finances needed to raise a child) while the woman does the child-rearing. Hey.. if I could have written a check every month, and not had to clean up puke, change shitty diapers, stay up until 3 am with a sick child and still drag my ass to work, and had more than 5 minutes in the bathroom alone, I would have considered it a Hell of a deal....

Knot. It's easy for someone who'll never be in the situation of being pregnant, to pretend they know anything about actually being pregnant.

Kinda like how some people talk about what they think homosexuals do, yet have never lived/experienced the life of said homosexuals.

There will always be those who view situations from the outside trying to tell you what is going on in the inside.

Knot/Ali: Sigh. Obviously, personal feelings are obscuring the ability to discuss this question. None of the points in my post were met. I'll be happy to discuss this issue. I'm not going to discuss the particulars of your personal life.


Not: Yes, so did the man. I pointed that out. Both are equally responsible for the pregnancy. Yet the situation exists where the woman can abdicate ALL responsibility through abortion and the man can't - even though up until that point they were equally responsible.

Jurisdition over their body? What, we should end the childs life because the mother feels unfit to have a baby? Who's fault is that? Why in America are liberals CONSTANTLY looking for ways to side-step their own irresponsibilities? You chose to have sex, whos fault is it that you got knocked up? How about you step up and take responsibility for your own mistakes? Abortion is bullshit, lets kills infants because the mother didn't mean to get pregnant.

The point being discussed is allowing the father to have a say over the mother's body simply because they donated some sperm.

No adult should have control over another adults body without their consent for any reason in a free society.


Why in America are conservatives CONSTANTLY looking for a way to force their personal morality on other people's personal morality???? It isn't your right or place to inflict that archaic way of thinking into other folks lives. It is why Bush can't understand the stem cell issue and the same reason why conservatives don't understand that a pinhead size group of cells is not a baby.

I agree with that much. Hte man should have no say over the womans body, but I will never agree with abortion.

Nice to hear from you again, Hev.