Men and Abortion - Page 14

garysher · 07-23-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forester814

As it is, men already have far too much power over women.

We make 70 cents on the dollar versus a man in the same job, handle primary care of the children and the house, often are objectified and occasionally battered, and on top of that, men think they want a say on this issue?

It's one of the very few issues that they DON'T have a say in.

The charges you lay are obviously heavily biased towards the woman's pov, so let me provide some fairness and balance:

We make 70 cents on the dollar versus a man in the same job:
- it's a consequence of the free market. Maybe employers feel they get better productivity from men in general? Maybe they also realise that men don't have the option of taking off for a few years to raise children?

In any case women are free to sell their labour to the highest bidder as are men.

Handle primary care of the children and the house,
- generally true, just as it's generally true that men pay the lion's share of the bills and provide for their wife and children. You forgot to mention that!

Often are objectified and occasionally battered,
-women objectify men too, sometimes financially rather than physically, sometimes both. Obviously there's never any excuse for physical abuse, although I'm amazed how many women don't see this side of their men's character

and on top of that, men think they want a say on this issue?
-Yes we do honey!

When a man fathers a child why shouldn't he have a say in whether that child is born or aborted?

Once the child is born he has a legal obligation to provide financially. Although that is only one aspect of providing for the child's need of having a mother and father.

forester814 · 07-23-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

Believe it or not, I've known people who depend on welfare to keep body and soul together who were going to vote for Regan. They said that they 'didn't want a liberal in the white house.'!

People that damn dumb shouldn't be allowed to vote.

That's head-shakin' news.

And I agree with you... but I guess, like the voters who blindly support any pro-life candidate regardless of his other positions, this is an unavoidable flaw in our system.

Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over'

Bush had equally high praise for Attorney General nominee John Ashcroft, whom he praised as "a tireless champion in the battle to protect a woman's right to give birth."

"Soon, with John Ashcroft's help, we will move out of the Dark Ages and into a more enlightened time when a woman will be free to think long and hard before trying to fight her way past throngs of protesters blocking her entrance to an abortion clinic," Bush said. "We as a nation can look forward to lots and lots of babies."

Catus Felidae · 07-23-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

-Yes we do honey!

When a man fathers a child why shouldn't he have a say in whether that child is born or aborted?

Once the child is born he has a legal obligation to provide financially. Although that is only one aspect of providing for the child's need of having a mother and father.

First:
How do you propose to 'give a man a say'? Should he be allowed to forbid her to abort? If so, HOW is he going to do this?

A court order? Not worth the paper it's printed on.

A 24/7 guard? That's an invasion of her privacy. And expensive.

How is he going to control her diet so that she doesn't have too many aspirin and then wash them down with a cup of espresso?

How is he going to keep her from getting herbs? Or coat hangers?

How is he going to stop her from doing certain exercises?

Second:
How is he even going to know she's pregnant in the first place if she doesn't want him to?

Saying "the man should have a say" is easy. How do you propose making it work?

BTW....The father can't sue on behalf of the fetus. The SC has already ruled that only the parent with majority custody has legal standing to file a violation of Constitutional rights suit on behalf of a child.

Catus Felidae · 07-23-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forester814

"Soon, with John Ashcroft's help, we will move out of the Dark Ages and into a more enlightened time when a woman will be free to think long and hard before trying to fight her way past throngs of protesters blocking her entrance to an abortion clinic," Bush said. "We as a nation can look forward to lots and lots of babies."

Exactly! This idiot says that he's 'protecting a womans right to give birth' and trying to make her 'free to think blah blah blah' and the rest of the idiots swallow that.

Since WHEN has a woman NOT been 'free' to think about having an abortion?

garysher · 07-23-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

First:
How do you propose to 'give a man a say'? Should he be allowed to forbid her to abort? If so, HOW is he going to do this?

A court order? Not worth the paper it's printed on.

A 24/7 guard? That's an invasion of her privacy. And expensive.

How is he going to control her diet so that she doesn't have too many aspirin and then wash them down with a cup of espresso?

How is he going to keep her from getting herbs? Or coat hangers?

How is he going to stop her from doing certain exercises?

Second:
How is he even going to know she's pregnant in the first place if she doesn't want him to?

Saying "the man should have a say" is easy. How do you propose making it work?

The biological father should be required to give legal authorisation for the abortion procedure. And I agree it's not as easy as it sounds, but that is no grounds for not trying.

If men have an equal responsibility to provide for the child then they should have an equal say.

AsianGrl · 07-23-2007, 08:39 PM

It's simple, when a man has a baby forming in his womb, he can make the decision...

garysher · 07-23-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianGrl

It's simple, when a man has a baby forming in his womb, he can make the decision...

Even simpler - when a woman gets pregnant without any participation from a man - then she gets to decide.

Until then she should be required to get the fathers approval before killing his baby

forester814 · 07-23-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianGrl

It's simple, when a man has a baby forming in his womb, he can make the decision...

Well said, AG!
I like the way you think.

There are some things that a man simply can't control, and this is one of them.

Catus Felidae · 07-24-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

The biological father should be required to give legal authorisation for the abortion procedure. And I agree it's not as easy as it sounds, but that is no grounds for not trying.

If men have an equal responsibility to provide for the child then they should have an equal say.

Who is going to pay for the dna testing necessary to prove that the man signing the papers is actually the father?

What if the biological father is married to someone else and refuses to even admit that the baby is his?

What if the mother doesn't know who the father is?

Signed authorization isn't as easy as it sounds. And you haven't even addressed 'do it yourself abortion'.

BTW...men have no responsibility to provide for a fetus.

Catus Felidae · 07-24-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Until then she should be required to get the fathers approval before killing his baby

So the moment she becomes pregnant, her body becomes HIS property?

What happens if he forces her to continue the pregnancy and it leaves her permanently disabled? Will he be required to support her?

His baby? It's her baby too. And her body. Two out of three gives you a majority. Why should the minority vote win?

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