Ohio may give fathers a say in abortion decision - Page 15

garysher · 08-14-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

It is almost the woman who is left holding the baby, but my point was that when women have sex, they are not always looking to become a mother, so why should she weigh every sexual partner on their 'fatherhood' abilities?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because accidents can happen - and when they do it's always the woman who becomes pregnant - never the man!

Are you being serious??

You can't prove the existence of a 'soul', so your argument is moot.

And you can't disprove it.

Catus Felidae · 08-14-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

You see, your last sentence tells me we aren't communicating very well. I'm not "defending" men. Men that don't take care of their responsibilites are louses. I don't see where you can think that I'm saying anything other than that. What is a biologic fact that can't be refuted though is that a woman bears most of the responsibility after the egg is fertilized. That's why we have "man and woman" in marriage. That's why we are supposed to be monogamous. That's why we aren't supposed to have sex before marriage. That's why marriage is supposed to be soild and stable and difficult to end. And since all of those are no longer the case, we have more and more messed up potential parents. It's a viscous cycle.

When you say that men cannot be expected to control themselves sexually because being a male whore is 'just the way they are', you ARE excusing them. When you place the ENTIRE responsibility for making sure that a potential father will be a good father solely on the woman, something that is impossible to do, you ARE excusing the man, and blaming the woman for not being psychic.

While a woman bears most of the responsibility biologically, when you say 'tough shit, she should have chosen better', and only offer unworkable solutions, you are creating a situation where she also bears ALL the responsibility socially. This makes it a hell of a lot easier for those male whores to carry on their merry way, making children and moving on.

Now that might not be the impression you are intending to give, but that is what is coming through loud and clear.

Catus Felidae · 08-14-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

You're saying that poor men aren't 'marriage material'? Aren't women who only go for a mans bank account condemned as 'gold diggers'? Didn't you say that your father was pretty well off? Did that help you any?

There's a difference between "gold digger" and a woman wanting to make sure she can live comfortably.

Marrying the man who got her pregnant doesn't guarantee her anything either.

That's where the no sex before marriage comes in. Self discipline. Or at least the pill, and a condom, or depo or something.[/quote]

Self discipline? That's not something you require for men though, is it?

AlicornsPrayer · 08-14-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

When you say that men cannot be expected to control themselves sexually because being a male whore is 'just the way they are', you ARE excusing them. When you place the ENTIRE responsibility for making sure that a potential father will be a good father solely on the woman, something that is impossible to do, you ARE excusing the man, and blaming the woman for not being psychic.

While a woman bears most of the responsibility biologically, when you say 'tough shit, she should have chosen better', and only offer unworkable solutions, you are creating a situation where she also bears ALL the responsibility socially. This makes it a hell of a lot easier for those male whores to carry on their merry way, making children and moving on.

Now that might not be the impression you are intending to give, but that is what is coming through loud and clear.

It's deffinately the impression FX is giving. That men are dogs, should be expected to behave like dogs, will only think like dogs. While the woman is the only person capable of being the responsible person or the only one that should be expected to be the responsible person.

Catus Felidae · 08-14-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Because accidents can happen - and when they do it's always the woman who becomes pregnant - never the man!

Are you being serious??

Of course I'm being serious. Getting pregnant doesn't mean you have to STAY pregnant. This may come as a shock to you gary, but sometimes, like men, women just want to get laid.

And you can't disprove it.

Which is why I don't toss it out into discussions. It's not provable either way, so it's moot.

garysher · 08-14-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

That's where the no sex before marriage comes in. Self discipline. Or at least the pill, and a condom, or depo or something.

Self discipline? That's not something you require for men though, is it? [/quote]

Yes of course it is

But men CANNOT get pregnant - when will you accept this fundamental difference?

Catus Felidae · 08-14-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer

It's deffinately the impression FX is giving. That men are dogs, should be expected to behave like dogs, will only think like dogs. While the woman is the only person capable of being the responsible person or the only one that should be expected to be the responsible person.

That's the exact impression I'M getting too.

garysher · 08-14-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

Which is why I don't toss it out into discussions. It's not provable either way, so it's moot.

Here's a lighter look at the subject from Ali G

"Do you believe in mahogany?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http:...elated&search=

Catus Felidae · 08-14-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Self discipline? That's not something you require for men though, is it?

Yes of course it is

But men CANNOT get pregnant - when will you accept this fundamental difference?[/quote]

And no matter what laws you pass, women don't have to STAY pregnant. When will YOU accept this fact?

forester814 · 08-14-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

How do you propose we change it. We can't have morals, we don't have self discipline. The people that make these decisions don't want change. As many people here have said, "you can't legislate morality".

We don't need to legislate morality. Expecting the government to do so is an abdication of personal responsibility. How do I propse we change it? It starts with you and your wife, and my and my wife.

We can't have morals? We HAVE morals. YOU have morals, you have spelled them out for me very clearly in our last couple exchanges, and I applaud you for having them. All you need to do is transfer them to your child. (Easier said than done, but it can and should be done.)

We don't have self-discipline? Sure we do. You just got done explaining to me about your self-discipline in staying with your wife and foresaking all others. I'm doing the same. Instill the value of that in your child. I'm doing the same.

The people that make these decisions? Those people are you and me. Parents. You and I cannot change the world, or go back to the 50's, or anything like that. But we can do what we can do. Make the decision to do what you can do.

You can teach your son as best you can about your values, about chastity, about waiting, about honor, about being a good father. It's not entirely up to you how he turns out, but you have a LOT of say.

That is how I propose we change it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I don't think abortion should be allowed except for health concerns or verifiable rape.

Unless your opinion is just academic here, it seems strange to me that, after all your talk about how the man has no responsibility other than providing sperm, and how it is all on the woman, that you, a man, would seek to limit a woman's choices.

I don't see how you can logically have it both ways here.

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