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Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 09-12-2007, 10:01 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
I disagree. Abortion is killing/homicide/murder and the government does have an interest in enforcing a ban on such acts.
Everything which lives has a life span, each one is different. Average life span for an American person is 78 years.

The government defines homicide/murder, and it has defined abortion as not homicide/murder. Abortion does not affect society as a whole, so it should not be subject to government regulation. Of course egotistical legislators believe EVERYTHING is subject to regulation by their superior wisdom.

Of what benefit would it be for government to ban abortion? It tried that for over a hundred years to no effect.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:23 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
Everything which lives has a life span, each one is different. Average life span for an American person is 78 years.

Not necessarily, a sperm that doesn't fertilize and egg has an entirely different outcome than one that does. You are over simplifying. "Life span" implies the life will end, and the transitions of the stages the egg takes during it's journey from egg to adult doesn't usually involve death.

The government defines homicide/murder, and it has defined abortion as not homicide/murder. Abortion does not affect society as a whole, so it should not be subject to government regulation. Of course egotistical legislators believe EVERYTHING is subject to regulation by their superior wisdom.

That's not true. Abortion IS illegal after a certain point. And as we see in how each state is different, that point is very arbitrary. Although it seems many are coming to a consensus on fetal homicide starts at conception. Which is pretty much a no brainer.


Of what benefit would it be for government to ban abortion? It tried that for over a hundred years to no effect.
Not all laws have a measurable benefit. Some are just based on the fact that some things are simply wrong. Like murder/homicide/killing.
Old 09-12-2007, 10:48 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
If an identical twin does not exist just after fertilization, then how can you say its "life" began during fertilization?

You are evidently assigning the term "life" to something that doesn't, yet, exist.

*(One could just as well argue that, if the "life" of an identical twin exists just after fertilization occurs and before cell division occurs, then the "life" of an identical twin can just as well exist before fertilization even takes place. I mean, what's the difference since, in both cases, an identical twin doesn't objectively exist.)*



But, did you have one pie immediately after you baked it and before you sliced it?

Or, did you have two pies immediately after you baked it and before you sliced it?
So which twin is the one who had the life in the beginning? can you answer that?
As the song says, it was a love T.K.O.
Old 09-13-2007, 06:29 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gonefishin View Post
So which twin is the one who had the life in the beginning? can you answer that?
No one can.

That's the point.
Old 09-13-2007, 07:55 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ccvasquez View Post
When are the anti choice idiots going to give up? You can't legislate science!

Science agrees that human life begins at conception. What the pro-abortionists argue is that it is not a person until it is born....or after the first tri-mester.....or once its viable....or (fill in the blank).
No, it doesn't. Science, which relies on facts, has no consensus on the subject.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:58 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady View Post
No one can.

That's the point.
What about chimeras? Does a chimera get to vote twice? Earn a double salary? Pay double taxes? Get charged with murder for 'killing' the other?
Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 09-13-2007, 08:06 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Not all laws have a measurable benefit. Some are just based on the fact that some things are simply wrong. Like murder/homicide/killing.
Murder/homicide are illegal because they cause chaos in society. Order in society is a measurable benefit. An orderly society has rules to maintain order. A secular society has rules to maintain order, but NO rules declaring right and wrong. A secular government has no obligation to enforce one sect's particular views of morality.

In order to be effective, a law must have a consensus in society. We have seen what happens when prohibition outlawed alcoholic beverages and fuel-saving speed laws were passed.

How does abortion effect order in society?
The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

--Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
Old 09-13-2007, 10:00 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonefishin View Post
So which twin is the one who had the life in the beginning? can you answer that?
Well, if you mean "beginning" to mean when there was a single fertilized cell, I guess it could be either identical twin.

But, if one is to believe that there are two lives demonstrated by a single fertilized cell, why stop at just two lives? Why should there not be an almost unlimited number of lives demonstrated by a single fertilized cell since each cell that exists in a blastocyst after successive cell divisions occur from that single fertilized cell can each potentially develop into separate fetuses if given the proper environment...at least up until cell differentiation begins to occur?

(In fact, if individual cells are removed from a blastocyst and implanted into another host they all too can potentially become separate viable fetuses. And, given this fact, why should it not be "murder" if any single cell in a blastocyst is deliberately removed from the blastocyst and killed?)

After there are 7 successful cell divisions of a fertilized egg there are 128 cells contained in a blastocyst. And after there are 8 successful cell divisions of a fertilized egg there are 256 cells contained in a blastocyst. And, each and every one of these cells can arguably be individually removed from the blastocyst and implanted into another host so that they can develop into separate fetuses. So, given this fact, would there be 128 (or 256) lives demonstrated by a single fertilized egg?
Old 09-13-2007, 11:06 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Boy I am sorry I haven't checked back until now.... So much error so little time to correct it. I'll just have to start where I can.

ok grannie,

Zefs are not babies

They are zygotes/embryoes/fetuses.


If zefs are not human, what exactly are they? rocks? birds flowers?

Obviously not, they are HUMAN zygotes/embryos/fetus.

It is amazing that the pro-choice group pretends to be so grounded in science, yet they somehow believe that a human fetus is somehow something completely different until some arbitrary time (first tri-mester, after birth, once its viable, etc) when it is declared human.
Old 09-13-2007, 11:07 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Garysher

Why not?

If government can enforce what you drink, what you wear and where you can park your car, why shouldn't it want to protect the lives of unborn babies?



Exactly. In fact it is the primary responsibility of a government to protect the lives of its citizens.
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