Defending the Truth

How precious. Do you follow others around the forum, too, or am I special?

The Teutonic wars, The Crusades, The Inquisitions - all glorious Christian acts - resulted in the rape, torture and killing of 20 to 30 million "living" people. Why doesn't that turn your stomach? The father of Dracula received his title Dragoule (Dragon Knight of the Holy Roman Church) for killing tens of thousands on non-believers directly from the pope himself. You say no matter what? I say there's some facts for you. And these people were alive and well before meeting up with the representatives of the Holy Seer. Many of the women were no doubt pregnant too - I think they got extra papal points for that.

can i add that the science of life is not nearly as clear cut as people like to think. there is little scientific consensus as to when a person becomes a person. life is surprisingly difficult to define, and an individuals life even more so.

think about the other end of the spectrum too. there is little consensus about when death happens.

there are definitions of when life begins that are in current use, such as at conception, at a gestational age when a foetus is potentially able to survive outside, at birth, but these are merely conventions. also, there are different conventions for different religious, legal and medical situations. the fact that there are several definitions ilustrates how little agreement there is on the issue, even among people who work in or are otherwise knowlegdeable about the field.

'when does a person become a person' is the essence of this debate. and the debate continues.

Suppose a woman does have unprotected sex and by some chance roll of the roulette wheel, DOES NOT get pregnant. How do you intend to MAKE HER ACCOUNTABLE? Are you going to arrange for medical exams for unmarried women to make sure they aren't having illicit sex so you can make sure they are punished if they do?

From another person on your ignore list, Gary is known to post in abortion threads. So have I on occasion.

I really cannot understand what the huge deal is with this issue. It was decided 35 years ago that a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy in the first trimester, and after that the states have a right to regulate the procedure. Why is that so terrible? I do have a right to make my own decisions about the course of my life. Women are no longer chattel or property of men in this country, and the fact is, some people still don't like that idea. Well, get used to it. I am sovereign over my body and life, as per the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, until I give up those rights by breaking the law. I don't give a rat's ass what anyone else thinks is moral, or murder, or anything else. It's my right to handle my pregnancy in the manner of my choosing, because I am protected under the Constitution and the laws of the U.S.A., during the first trimester. Why do you people insist on thinking that women hate their children and would go out of their way to hurt them, or cause them pain? Isn't it mothers who generally nurture and care for the children? Isn't that always how it's been? It is no different now, and it won't be different in the future. We know what is right for ourselves and our families, and if a pregnancy is terminated, there is obviously a good enough reason for the pregnant women to do so, or she wouldn't. Who are you to question her decision about her life, when you don't know anything about her or her life? We don't need other people to decide our futures for us, we are perfectly capable of doing so.

And if indeed there are religious consequences for a woman who terminates a pregnancy, that is between her and her God, if she believes in one. Her soul is her concern, not any of your's.

Because to some people, when a new life is created by voluntary sexual activity by that woman, the life of the potential human should have someone to speak for it. It shouldn't be a "oh dam, I'm pregnant, gotta get this potential human sucked out of me". The choices stop at the moment of conception to many people. And that's not a punishment, it's just looking at human life in it's entirety instead of the part that is convenient to a woman's "choice".

A human life in potential, while a woman is a human life in reality. The potential for life does not trump the actual human life of the woman, not in the first trimester anyway. And voluntary activity does not mean you can force the consequences on a woman, because it was voluntary sex. We are adults and don't need mommies or daddies to punish us for our actions. And if someone has to speak for the potential human life, wouldn't it be the woman who would be raising and caring for it if it were wanted and born?

Not in the first trimester huh? And I say right after conception. No one is punishing anyone. The reason and outcome of sex is no secret. Especially if it's the second go-round as 50% of abortions are. That's just dumb.

That's nice, dear.

Fortunately, it is only your opinion, since science can't come to a consensus as to when life begins. Most scientists would agree that it begins when the brain begins having activity in the frontal lobes, which begins well into the 3rd trimester.