Not a human being. - Page 14

OKgrannie · 12-15-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I suggested it. Why wouldn't it be enough? It'd be hypocritical for me to not be satisfied.

So what's new about anti-choicers being hypocritical? It wouldn't be enough for you because it wouldn't be a severe enough punishment for the pregnant woman. Suppose most of the women don't mind having their names/pictures published for public persual? Then it wouldn't be punishment at all.

Quote:

You seem to be the one that needs the free and clear ability to kill a "ZEF" by choice.

Every fertile woman needs the free and clear ability to have an unwanted zef removed from her body.

fxashun · 12-15-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKgrannie

So what's new about anti-choicers being hypocritical? It wouldn't be enough for you because it wouldn't be a severe enough punishment for the pregnant woman. Suppose most of the women don't mind having their names/pictures published for public persual? Then it wouldn't be punishment at all.

I'm not an "anti-choicer", I'm a person who proposed a solution to a problem and you still are accusing me of not being satisfied if that solution is allowed. There WILL be other people that won't be happy until there are no abortions at all, but then again, there are people that won't be happy until you can whack a baby in the head on the way out of the vagina. There are extremes on both sides.
If it's not punishment, then they shouldn't have a problem with it. I bet some men don't mind their name and picture listed for DUI and prostitution as well. But the jurisdictions still do it.

Every fertile woman needs the free and clear ability to have an unwanted zef removed from her body.

And I disagree to a certain extent of course. But if you have to have an abortion, it shouldn't be like getting your teeth cleaned. You have killed something that your actions created. It's no small matter.

OKgrannie · 12-15-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKgrannie

So what's new about anti-choicers being hypocritical? It wouldn't be enough for you because it wouldn't be a severe enough punishment for the pregnant woman. Suppose most of the women don't mind having their names/pictures published for public persual? Then it wouldn't be punishment at all.

I'm not an "anti-choicer", I'm a person who proposed a solution to a problem and you still are accusing me of not being satisfied if that solution is allowed. There WILL be other people that won't be happy until there are no abortions at all, but then again, there are people that won't be happy until you can whack a baby in the head on the way out of the vagina. There are extremes on both sides.
If it's not punishment, then they shouldn't have a problem with it. I bet some men don't mind their name and picture listed for DUI and prostitution as well. But the jurisdictions still do it.

You're an anti-choicer. Your proposal is no solution, it doesn't SOLVE anything, it's just a means to punish women.

Quote:

Every fertile woman needs the free and clear ability to have an unwanted zef removed from her body.

Quote:

And I disagree to a certain extent of course. But if you have to have an abortion, it shouldn't be like getting your teeth cleaned. You have killed something that your actions created. It's no small matter.

So you would allow abortions so long as a woman feels bad about it? If a woman simply feels relief that it's over, you have to find another way to make her feel bad?

fxashun · 12-15-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKgrannie

You're an anti-choicer. Your proposal is no solution, it doesn't SOLVE anything, it's just a means to punish women.

That's pretty much the result of all laws that attempt to control behavior such as this. See below..

So you would allow abortions so long as a woman feels bad about it? If a woman simply feels relief that it's over, you have to find another way to make her feel bad?

Yup. She shoulda thought about that before she cracked her legs and got pregnant. Additionally, you seem to gloss over the fact that I recommend men should also be listed. The carelessness of both should be noted. I'm equal opportunity. You're never gonna stop prostitution, drugs, or abortion...but people should know who the offenders are.

OKgrannie · 12-15-2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

Yup. She shoulda thought about that before she cracked her legs and got pregnant. Additionally, you seem to gloss over the fact that I recommend men should also be listed. The carelessness of both should be noted. I'm equal opportunity. You're never gonna stop prostitution, drugs, or abortion...but people should know who the offenders are.

Generally, the object of instituting punishment is to act as a deterrent. You admit such punishment will not be a deterrent, but is ONLY for the purpose of making women (and men) suffer. I think your goal of making women suffer is shared by a majority of anti-choicers, and in fact, is the primary object in attempting to force women to continue a pregnancy.

Oddly, you do not seem to realize how repugnant that object is to a majority of people.

fxashun · 12-15-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKgrannie

Generally, the object of instituting punishment is to act as a deterrent. You admit such punishment will not be a deterrent, but is ONLY for the purpose of making women (and men) suffer. I think your goal of making women suffer is shared by a majority of anti-choicers, and in fact, is the primary object in attempting to force women to continue a pregnancy.

Oddly, you do not seem to realize how repugnant that object is to a majority of people.

I don't think a majority of people will think that is repugnant. A "majority" of people are as reupulsed at the idea of abortion as I am. I already gave the poll results earlier in the thread.

And it can be argued that "punishment" and "suffering" run together. The death penalty and stiffer sentencing hasn't been shown to deter some forms of crime. So that is a weak reason not to allow my idea.

OKgrannie · 12-15-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I don't think a majority of people will think that is repugnant. A "majority" of people are as reupulsed at the idea of abortion as I am. I already gave the poll results earlier in the thread.

A majority of people believe women should have the choice whether they are personally repulsed or not. Many people who would personally choose to abort still support choice.

Quote:

And it can be argued that "punishment" and "suffering" run together. The death penalty and stiffer sentencing hasn't been shown to deter some forms of crime. So that is a weak reason not to allow my idea.

It is an excellent reason to eliminate the death penalty, and investigate what constitutes reasonable sentencing.

fxashun · 12-15-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKgrannie

A majority of people believe women should have the choice whether they are personally repulsed or not. Many people who would personally choose to abort still support choice.

But a majority of people wouldn't choose to abort. That's like saying anyone who would personally choose to murder would recommend lighter prison sentences and abolishing the death penalty. I just gave the results of several polls that indicate otherwise for the general population.

It is an excellent reason to eliminate the death penalty, and investigate what constitutes reasonable sentencing.

I disagree, if someone commits a heinous murder (or 10) and are guilty with 0% doubt...They should fry/suffocate/go to permanent sleep. The death penalty is totally reasonable in some cases. No point keeping them around.

OKgrannie · 12-15-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

But a majority of people wouldn't choose to abort. That's like saying anyone who would personally choose to murder would recommend lighter prison sentences and abolishing the death penalty. I just gave the results of several polls that indicate otherwise for the general population

Your polls do not show a majority opposing abortion, quite the opposite. What people think they would choose, is often proved wrong when the situation presents itself. IOW, you do not know what you would do until the situation arises in your own life.

Quote:

I disagree, if someone commits a heinous murder (or 10) and are guilty with 0% doubt...They should fry/suffocate/go to permanent sleep. The death penalty is totally reasonable in some cases. No point keeping them around.

1. There is no such thing as 0% doubt.
2. It is KILLING. And this time it's killing a recognized human being, a citizen, a member of society.
3. It is more expensive to administer the death penalty than life imprisonment.
4. A criminal guilty of a heinous crime should suffer for it by imprisonment, not be relieved of suffering by death.

fxashun · 12-15-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKgrannie

Your polls do not show a majority opposing abortion, quite the opposite. What people think they would choose, is often proved wrong when the situation presents itself. IOW, you do not know what you would do until the situation arises in your own life.

Yes they did. Especially if you exclude abortions for health concerns.
Here's the link again...
Abortion

1. There is no such thing as 0% doubt.
Yes there is. The guys shooting from their trunk for example. The Atlanta Courthouse shooter is another. There IS such a thing.

2. It is KILLING. And this time it's killing a recognized human being, a citizen, a member of society.
Who has committed a heinous crime and therefore has created a system where he/she should be removed from society.

3. It is more expensive to administer the death penalty than life imprisonment.
I'm sure the appeal costs could be controlled. There is a minimum you can spend for food and lodging though.

4. A criminal guilty of a heinous crime should suffer for it by imprisonment, not be relieved of suffering by death.

I guess we differ on that as well. But this ain't the thread for that debate.

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