War on women - Page 8

Rod · 10-13-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

And the set standard that works best regarding abortion, is to leave it to the woman involved. If she is a minor, the set standard that works best is one parents permission or a Judges.

I agree to that b_d if that one parent has full custody rights and decisions.

When it is a shared custody situation then these matters should be approved by both parents.

Catus Felidae · 10-13-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

Some states have created strictly seperate courts for family matters. The case I happened to be in was expedited despite the ex's attorney.

Civil courts cases can be drawn out for a long time. Many judiciaries consider if it it not a life threatening matter it can be tabled until a later date. Matters concerning life are normally heard first.

This is true. But let's face it, right now a minor only needs one parents permission, and they usually know which parent to go to. If we start requiring the permission of both, we are going to need more courts, more Judges, more support staff, more everything. THAT is going to cost the average taxpayer a significant amount.

Catus Felidae · 10-13-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

I agree to that b_d if that one parent has full custody rights and decisions.

When it is a shared custody situation then these matters should be approved by both parents.

My husband is from a very small town in southern Arkansas. The closest clinic to that town is here, where we live. I have had literally dozens of parents contact me regarding the name, number and location of the clinic. I usually end up having them come to my house and taking them from there.

I have never had both parents bring a girl for an abortion. The majority of them were not divorced parents. They were married, but knew that the other parent would 'go ballistic' if they found out.

If these girls knew that both parents would have to know, I doubt a lot of them would tell either parent. I shudder to think what some of them would have done to themselves in an effort to keep that one parent from knowing the truth.

Laws of that nature are not in the childs best interest.

Rod · 10-13-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

This is true. But let's face it, right now a minor only needs one parents permission, and they usually know which parent to go to. If we start requiring the permission of both, we are going to need more courts, more Judges, more support staff, more everything. THAT is going to cost the average taxpayer a significant amount.

It comes back to that custodial parent should have the last say. It is that away with schools even. Most generally a school requires permissions from the custodial parent. It is as simple as requiring the abortion clinics to insure that it is a permission by the custodial parents.

baloney_detector · 10-13-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

And the set standard that works best regarding abortion, is to leave it to the woman involved. If she is a minor, the set standard that works best is one parents permission or a Judges.

Personally speaking, I disagree with that whole "parents permission" business when dealing with a pregnant minor.

But that's just me.

Catus Felidae · 10-13-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

It comes back to that custodial parent should have the last say. It is that away with schools even. Most generally a school requires permissions from the custodial parent. It is as simple as requiring the abortion clinics to insure that it is a permission by the custodial parents.

How is the clinic going to do that?

A copy of the custody order? How are they to know that a new order hasn't been granted? How are they supposed to know that the parent who shows up is even that person, and not an aunt or uncle who look enough alike to pass with the others ID?

Clinics deal with medical problems. They are not set up and do not have the ability to run background checks on people or court orders.

Rod · 10-13-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

My husband is from a very small town in southern Arkansas. The closest clinic to that town is here, where we live. I have had literally dozens of parents contact me regarding the name, number and location of the clinic. I usually end up having them come to my house and taking them from there.

I have never had both parents bring a girl for an abortion. The majority of them were not divorced parents. They were married, but knew that the other parent would 'go ballistic' if they found out.

If these girls knew that both parents would have to know, I doubt a lot of them would tell either parent. I shudder to think what some of them would have done to themselves in an effort to keep that one parent from knowing the truth.

Laws of that nature are not in the childs best interest.

CF, I cannot say I have seen the situations you are speaking of. I can say that hiding the truth never leads to what is in the best interest of all from my experiences.

I recall years back when the family child molestor was allowed to wreck the lives of the youngest members of the family. It was a scandal and a shame of the family so no one said anything about this creep and what he did. The great family secret allowed him to rape nearly every child in the family at very young ages, male and female alike.

Then again years later a simular situation all in the name of "We don't want to upset...." Old enough the second time around when faced with a simular situation it was not allow it to be hidden. People do not always react to situations as it is thought that they would. No one grabbed a gun, no one came unglued. The whole matter was not sweeped under the carpet for another to face the same fate.

People change as they become more aware of truth. The peer pressure of the shame and disgrace is not what is was forty, fifty, sixty years ago for unplanned pregnancies. We have better systems now than we have ever had for misplaced children and they are improving all the time.

It is like having a bigot that hates a certain race and his child marries one of that race. What will the bigot do hate their child and their grandchildren always? Not from what I have seen.

Rod · 10-13-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

How is the clinic going to do that?

A copy of the custody order? How are they to know that a new order hasn't been granted? How are they supposed to know that the parent who shows up is even that person, and not an aunt or uncle who look enough alike to pass with the others ID?

Clinics deal with medical problems. They are not set up and do not have the ability to run background checks on people or court orders.

Boy, touchy aren't we. Simple enough for them to attempt to get proper information. Are you saying they shouldn't even try?

Catus Felidae · 10-13-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

CF, I cannot say I have seen the situations you are speaking of. I can say that hiding the truth never leads to what is in the best interest of all from my experiences.

I don't care about the 'best interests of all'. I care about the best interests of the minor child.

I recall years back when the family child molestor was allowed to wreck the lives of the youngest members of the family. It was a scandal and a shame of the family so no one said anything about this creep and what he did. The great family secret allowed him to rape nearly every child in the family at very young ages, male and female alike.

Child molesting is a completely different ball game. The two are nowhere comparable.

Then again years later a simular situation all in the name of "We don't want to upset...." Old enough the second time around when faced with a simular situation it was not allow it to be hidden. People do not always react to situations as it is thought that they would. No one grabbed a gun, no one came unglued. The whole matter was not sweeped under the carpet for another to face the same fate.

People change as they become more aware of truth. The peer pressure of the shame and disgrace is not what is was forty, fifty, sixty years ago for unplanned pregnancies. We have better systems now than we have ever had for misplaced children and they are improving all the time.

No, it isn't. But that doesn't mean that every pregnant 15 year old can go to both, or even one, of her parents and confess her problem and remain 'safe'.

It is like having a bigot that hates a certain race and his child marries one of that race. What will the bigot do hate their child and their grandchildren always? Not from what I have seen.

I have. I have a girlfriend whose daughter had her first child at 15. That one is white. The next two were mixed. Her father loves the first child but will have nothing to do with the other two. He flat out said to her "Those N***** babies aren't MY grandchildren".

Catus Felidae · 10-13-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod

Boy, touchy aren't we. Simple enough for them to attempt to get proper information. Are you saying they shouldn't even try?

Not touchy at all. Just realistic.

If getting the 'proper information' is so simple, how should they do it? My husband and his brother could easily use each others ID's. How would the clinic know that he was the father and not the uncle? My mom is 72, but she looks younger than *I* do. She could use my drivers license and pass for me with no trouble at all.

How would they know that a custody agreement was still in force?

What you are proposing is easy, on paper. In real life, not so much.

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