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Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 10-13-2007, 12:39 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
If parental consent to an abortion is required for a pregnant teenager, then why shouldn't parental consent be required for a teenager if she wishes to remain pregnant...especially since pregnant teenagers very often need medical care in order to carry a pregnancy to term?

That's a good point.

Legally, parents CAN make children undergo medical procedures that they do not want.
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:43 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
Not touchy at all. Just realistic.

If getting the 'proper information' is so simple, how should they do it? My husband and his brother could easily use each others ID's. How would the clinic know that he was the father and not the uncle? My mom is 72, but she looks younger than *I* do. She could use my drivers license and pass for me with no trouble at all.



How would they know that a custody agreement was still in force?

What you are proposing is easy, on paper. In real life, not so much.
Are you saying that most generally people are not honest when providing this information?
Old 10-13-2007, 12:48 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod View Post
Are you saying that most generally people are not honest when providing this information?

I would imagine that most people are. But the laws you want wouldn't apply to them in the first place.

They would apply to the ones going behind the other parents back. It would not only be easy to circumvent those laws, but is usually done for good reason.


Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 10-13-2007, 12:59 PM   #84 (permalink)
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The basic law and regulations have to be based on what is best for all.
As an individual you work on the level you deal with in seeing each individual. This does not mean a law should not be in place to protect the majority of that "all".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
I have. I have a girlfriend whose daughter had her first child at 15. That one is white. The next two were mixed. Her father loves the first child but will have nothing to do with the other two. He flat out said to her "Those N***** babies aren't MY grandchildren".
From what I have seen this is not always the case. Hateful bigots are out there no doubt. It is not a perfect world but on a whole we are all supposed to try.

It is his loss (her father) he holds such hatred in his heart. Not all situations are like that. I had an uncle that swore a certain race was the worst. He spewed more hateful words and slanderous statements than most can imagine. His only child married a person of another racial background. That uncle adores his grandchildren regardless the fact is they are of mixed race.
Old 10-13-2007, 01:02 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
I would imagine that most people are. But the laws you want wouldn't apply to them in the first place.

They would apply to the ones going behind the other parents back. It would not only be easy to circumvent those laws, but is usually done for good reason.

That is as good as saying, "Shop lifters should be ignored because they get away with it anyhow".

Generally people are lousy liers when working to pull off something they know is wrong. What would it hurt to ask for a little accountability?
Old 10-13-2007, 01:13 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod View Post
That is as good as saying, "Shop lifters should be ignored because they get away with it anyhow".

It's not the same at all. Stealing is quite different than protecting your daughter.

Generally people are lousy liers when working to pull off something they know is wrong. What would it hurt to ask for a little accountability?
It could get a pregnant teen beaten, killed, or tossed into the system.


Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 10-13-2007, 01:15 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod View Post
The basic law and regulations have to be based on what is best for all.
As an individual you work on the level you deal with in seeing each individual. This does not mean a law should not be in place to protect the majority of that "all".

Laws governing abortion regarding teenagers, should be and are based on what is best for the teenager.



From what I have seen this is not always the case. Hateful bigots are out there no doubt. It is not a perfect world but on a whole we are all supposed to try.

It is his loss (her father) he holds such hatred in his heart. Not all situations are like that. I had an uncle that swore a certain race was the worst. He spewed more hateful words and slanderous statements than most can imagine. His only child married a person of another racial background. That uncle adores his grandchildren regardless the fact is they are of mixed race.
Which just goes to show that we don't live in a 'one size fits all' world.


Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 10-13-2007, 05:25 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
My husband is from a very small town in southern Arkansas. The closest clinic to that town is here, where we live. I have had literally dozens of parents contact me regarding the name, number and location of the clinic. I usually end up having them come to my house and taking them from there.

I have never had both parents bring a girl for an abortion. The majority of them were not divorced parents. They were married, but knew that the other parent would 'go ballistic' if they found out.

If these girls knew that both parents would have to know, I doubt a lot of them would tell either parent. I shudder to think what some of them would have done to themselves in an effort to keep that one parent from knowing the truth.

Laws of that nature are not in the childs best interest.
Parents going "ballistic" is hardly a reason NOT to require parental permission for an abortion.

Parents may go "ballistic" for all kinds of reasons but grasping the nettle and facing up to the truth is always in the best interests of children (and adults too).
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:27 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
Not touchy at all. Just realistic.

If getting the 'proper information' is so simple, how should they do it? My husband and his brother could easily use each others ID's. How would the clinic know that he was the father and not the uncle? My mom is 72, but she looks younger than *I* do. She could use my drivers license and pass for me with no trouble at all.



How would they know that a custody agreement was still in force?

What you are proposing is easy, on paper. In real life, not so much.
None of these possibilities are reasons to deny enforcement of parental involvement in abortion decisions of their pregnant daughters.

ID's can be forged on tax returns, driving licences, passports etc but that doesn't mean we should just forget about having any of them!
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Old 10-14-2007, 03:21 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
Abortion is safe, ten times safer than childbirth. So if we want young women to be SAFE, we must REQUIRE them to have abortions when they are young and pregnant. The only purpose for parental consent laws is to deny young women the procedure, and that is not true for any other medical procedure.
Really are you sure that abortion is 10 times safer than childbirth????? There are two studies that reveal that the Death Rate by Abortion is three times higher than the death rate by childbirth.......

Pregnancy-associated mortality after birth, spontaneous abortion or induced abortion in Finland, 1987 - 2000 which appeared in the American Journal of OB/GYN showed that the death rate for women who carried to term was 28.2 per 100,000 whereas the death rate for women who had abortions was 83.1 per 100,000. This study reviewed records of women over 13 years.

Deaths associated with pregnancy outcome: a record linkage study of low income women that appeared in the Southern Medical Journal looked at deaths of women who had children and abortions for up to two years following. It found women who had abortions were twice as likely to die within the following two years as compared to those who carried to term. The study also found that this elevated mortality persisted for up to eight years and that women who had abortions were three times more likely to die of circulatory disease and five times more likely to die from cerebrovascular disease.

In Roe v Wade, the Court accepted as fact that abortion was safer than childbirth, especially in early stages of pregnancy which helped to formulate the trimester ruling. In the ruling the court as stated that the states have the authority to regulate abortion to protect the womens health only at the point at which death rates associated with abortion exceeded those associated with child birth.

So obviously it would seem these studies disprove that abortion is safe, and as such, if we want our young women to be safe than instead of encouraging them to abort, instead we should encourage them to rear. Or to use your wording, REQUIRE them to give birth.

Oh yes, facts are stupid things.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
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