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Today is the anniversary of Roe V. Wade..

Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 01-26-2008, 12:07 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Granny, you are aware that many women abort children for reasons that have nothing to do with there bodies? Right? So your saying if a women doesnt want a child, cause she feels she cant afford it, then she shouldnt be able to abort him/her? I mean that has nothing to do with her body. Right?
Pregnancy/childbirth ALWAYS has to do with the woman's body. Regardless of WHY she doesn't want a child, she has the right to control her body.


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And if you feel she should still be able to abort, why do you feel the man should be held responcible if she decides to have the child? How is that equal rights?? What if he feels that he cant afford a child? Why does she have more rights than him?
"She" does not have more rights than "him". She gets the choice to decide whether or not to gestate in her own body. Once a child exists, after birth, it must be supported by someone. We can declare the fathers not responsible, and the taxpayers as a whole can pick up the bill, but methinks people will not like that. If he feels he cannot afford a child, the courts will decide what is a fair amount for him to pay. It probably won't be enough to actually the support the child, so the mother will be the one to figure out how to support the child and will have to make up the difference in addition to providing physical care for the child. BTW, the father is never required to provide any physical care or emotional support for the rearing of the child.

BTW, Grace, responSible.
The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

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Old 01-26-2008, 12:15 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
This conclusion from Grannie:
First of all, we are discussing Roe v. Wade. And as abortion became legalized, it was not by a passing of a law so much as interpretation of law. Of constitution.

Here's a scenario, Grannie.

I have a yard. A pretty yard, patio stones up near the house, a statuesque bird bath, shrubbery and in the spring, daffodils and tulips.
I even have some trees. Mountain Ash and Water Oak.

Now I have a good friend who loves my yard. He wants me to plant a cedar too. He cannot plant one in his own yard, cos he lives in a high-rise without any yard to call his own. So we discussed it. And agreed. I have the yard and he went to the nursery and bought the tree. I agreed to let him plant it in my yard. He said he would take care of it for me and with me.

Once I agreed to allow him to plant his tree in my yard, and have reasonably discussed the terms, I cannot rightfully just uproot his tree and put it out to the curb with the trash! Sure I have rights, cos it is my yard, not his!!!

But once I agree to let him plant something in my yard, even if I don't like the way it shades my daffodils too much, I can't just back out of my responsibility to my friend. To the tree that he and I planted in agreement and did enjoy the afternoon together planting.

Maturity and responsibility would weigh in on this, in a court of law. Would it not? Perhaps I could be given allowance to uproot the tree, but not without the courts giving the man a certain time frame to find another "home" for the cedar.

My yard, my rights. Sure. But his tree, his rights.

OhDear
Actually, you can remove that tree anytime you want. You would be kind if you dug it up and allowed him to pick it up and remove to whereever he chooses, but you don't have to do that. When someone plants a tree in your yard, it is a gift to you. You don't have to keep the gift, you don't have to continue to feed and water the gift, you can do with it as you choose. It's not "his" tree anymore.
The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

--Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
Old 01-26-2008, 12:33 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Women have the choice to be sterilized. That is pro-choice.

Men have the choice to be sterilized. That is pro-choice.

you know a doctor who will sterilize a healthy 20 year old woman?


Either sex has the choice to masturbate or practice gay sex, and not face the demands of pregnancy.

But should both a man and a woman choose to have sex with each other, and a pregnancy occur, both had a part in it, both have a part in choosing what to do about it.

How is THAT a double standard?

OhDear
Simple. They may both have had a part in the pregnancy, but SHE is the only one who is pregnant.

If he was the one who got pregnant, she would, at that point, have no choice.
Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 01-26-2008, 12:34 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman View Post
Not many married women. If they do, it's probably for a damn good reason (they're married to a violent asshole for example). Any yes, I saw the Godfather II. It proves that the Sicilian Mafia should only marry other Sicilians.
Or they don't want another child, for example.
Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 01-26-2008, 12:36 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Jeepers, your gripe is with the fact that women have female anatomy. Sorry but there is no legalizing, no choosing, no nothing that is going to eradicate the difference and the subsequent affects of living as a woman in a female body. Suck it up, Grannie.

What amusement comes from some of the posts here!!!

OhDear

Jeepers, your gripe is with the fact that women have female anatomy. Sorry but there is no legalizing, no choosing, no nothing that is going to eradicate the difference and the subsequent affects of living as a woman in a female body. Suck it up.
Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 01-26-2008, 12:41 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
This conclusion from Grannie:
First of all, we are discussing Roe v. Wade. And as abortion became legalized, it was not by a passing of a law so much as interpretation of law. Of constitution.

Here's a scenario, Grannie.

I have a yard. A pretty yard, patio stones up near the house, a statuesque bird bath, shrubbery and in the spring, daffodils and tulips.
I even have some trees. Mountain Ash and Water Oak.

Now I have a good friend who loves my yard. He wants me to plant a cedar too. He cannot plant one in his own yard, cos he lives in a high-rise without any yard to call his own. So we discussed it. And agreed. I have the yard and he went to the nursery and bought the tree. I agreed to let him plant it in my yard. He said he would take care of it for me and with me.

Once I agreed to allow him to plant his tree in my yard, and have reasonably discussed the terms, I cannot rightfully just uproot his tree and put it out to the curb with the trash!

Actually, yes you can.

Sure I have rights, cos it is my yard, not his!!!

Exactly.
But once I agree to let him plant something in my yard, even if I don't like the way it shades my daffodils too much, I can't just back out of my responsibility to my friend. To the tree that he and I planted in agreement and did enjoy the afternoon together planting.

Of course you can.
Maturity and responsibility would weigh in on this, in a court of law. Would it not?

Nope. Unless you have a signed contract, the courts would only consider property rights. Even if you did have a signed contract, that would only give your neighbor the right to sue for monetary loss. It would not give him the right to force you to keep the tree.

Perhaps I could be given allowance to uproot the tree, but not without the courts giving the man a certain time frame to find another "home" for the cedar.

LOL!
My yard, my rights. Sure. But his tree, his rights.

Not when it's planted in someone else's yard. Call a lawyer and ask.
OhDear
All in all, you can rip out his tree any time you like, and the worst the Judge will do, is make you pay him back for the cost of the tree.
Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 01-26-2008, 12:42 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
What if he feels that he cant afford a child? Why does she have more rights than him?
Because she is the one who is pregnant.
Bother not the cat. For they are sneaky and will piss on thy keyboard.
Old 01-27-2008, 04:23 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catus Felidae View Post
Because she is the one who is pregnant.
So what? If the women decides she cant afford a child, she has a choice, he doesnt. That is not equal rights, no matter how you try to spin it. If she has a way out, he should also, if we are trully to be "equal".
Old 01-27-2008, 08:08 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
They figured out what causes babies, but they have never figured out how to prevent people from having sex. Duhhhhhh.
Yes, but they have figured out how to have sex without making babies. pppppffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttt!
Old 01-27-2008, 08:15 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Well so what if my "analogies" did not work ...reality works.

And the reality is, it takes two to tango. Like passions, like pleasure, like rights and responsibilities.

It should be noted too, most women who get abortions have emotional issues afterward concerning what they "chose"...


OhDear
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