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Let god be thy judge

Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 04-17-2008, 12:53 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Yet on another thread you make the case why we should prosecute pedophiles who abuse children, and why children need to be protected from predators so they won't become victims.

So what do you say to someone who says:

"If you don't believe in abusing children then don't abuse one, but keep your nose out of the pedophile's life who doesn't feel the same way you do"

The purpose of law is to maintain order in society. Pedophiles disrupt order in society by damaging children who grow up to be damaged adults. How does abortion cause disorder in society?
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:02 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
The purpose of law is to maintain order in society.

Nope. The purpose of law goes far beyond maintenance of order.

And even if we accept your definition, the "maintenance of order" is so wide open to interpretation it could mean almost anything.





Pedophiles disrupt order in society by damaging children who grow up to be damaged adults. How does abortion cause disorder in society?
See above re the hopelessly broad definition of "disorder". Hitler felt that Jews and gypsies created "disorder".

If we take WT's earlier criteria for allowing homosexual marriage "if it's not your child then it doesn't affect you so why do you care"?

Most people believe that killing unborn children falls well outside of acceptable moral behaviour.
Old 04-17-2008, 01:38 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Not most people, some people.

Quote:
You're improvising
I am not imrovising. You just don't like what I said. If anything, your argument is the weaker. That is, when it makes sense.
Old 04-17-2008, 02:21 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie (Let god be thy judge)
The purpose of law is to maintain order in society.
Quote:
Nope. The purpose of law goes far beyond maintenance of order
Quote:
And even if we accept your definition, the "maintenance of order" is so wide open to interpretation it could mean almost anything.
Properly the purpose of law is the maintainance of order. Yes, it does have wide application. For instance, some say a second purpose for law is maintaining justice in society, but I contend that injustice eventually
results in disorder, so therefore the primarly purpose of law in maintaining order.


Quote:
Quote:
Pedophiles disrupt order in society by damaging children who grow up to be damaged adults. How does abortion cause disorder in society?


See above re the hopelessly broad definition of "disorder". Hitler felt that Jews and gypsies created "disorder".

If we take WT's earlier criteria for allowing homosexual marriage "if it's not your child then it doesn't affect you so why do you care"?

Most people believe that killing unborn children falls well outside of acceptable moral behaviour.
[/quote]

Dictating moral behaviour is definately outside the proper bounds of the purpose of law and government. Unless that behaviour causes disorder in society, which it frequently does. People can have widely varying standards for what constitutes acceptable moral behaviour and still live side-by-side peacefully.

MOST people believe that abortion is acceptable in all or most cases:
Abortion
The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

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Old 04-17-2008, 03:58 PM   #205 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Most people believe that killing unborn children falls well outside of acceptable moral behaviour.

The fact that someone finds something 'immoral' does not make it against the law. Nor should it.

We tried that when the 'moralists' decided to outlaw alcohol. It was a dismal failure.

There are those who think that having an abortion is 'immoral', and there are those who think that having a child you are going to dump on society to provide for 'immoral'.

And then there are those who think that having an abortion AND having a child you can't support is 'immoral'. There's no pleasing them though.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:37 PM   #206 (permalink)
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There are those who think that having an abortion is 'immoral', and there are those who think that having a child you are going to dump on society to provide for 'immoral'.

And then there are those who think that having an abortion AND having a child you can't support is 'immoral'. There's no pleasing them though.
I think that both of those things are (in most cases) immoral. But I think a lot of other perfectly legal things are immoral. Not my job to police other peoples morals. And I don't want it to be the government's job either.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:37 PM   #207 (permalink)
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The fact that someone finds something 'immoral' does not make it against the law. Nor should it.

True. But that has nothing to do with the fact that many laws exist to support commonly-held moral values.



We tried that when the 'moralists' decided to outlaw alcohol. It was a dismal failure.

Prohibition was a complete failure, but there are still many arcane laws covering the use of alcohol, including the legal drinking age of 21, higher than any other western nation.



There are those who think that having an abortion is 'immoral', and there are those who think that having a child you are going to dump on society to provide for 'immoral'.

"Dumping" children on society is not illegal.

It is society's responsibility to care for children who have no parents, or inadequate parents, through no fault of their own.


And then there are those who think that having an abortion AND having a child you can't support is 'immoral'. There's no pleasing them though.
And there are those who insist on laws to protect children for indisputable moral reasons, whilst ignoring the immorality of killing unborn children.
Old 04-17-2008, 04:38 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I think that both of those things are (in most cases) immoral. But I think a lot of other perfectly legal things are immoral. Not my job to police other peoples morals. And I don't want it to be the government's job either.
So you would agree to abolish laws prohibiting public nudity for example?
Old 04-17-2008, 07:27 PM   #209 (permalink)
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So you would agree to abolish laws prohibiting public nudity for example?

LOL, public nudity would cause a LOT of disorder in society!
The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

--Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:30 PM   #210 (permalink)
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And there are those who insist on laws to protect children for indisputable moral reasons, whilst ignoring the immorality of killing unborn children.
Laws against abusing children are not passed for "moral" purposes, they are passed because abused children become damaged children, who become damaged adults, who become a drain on society. Abusing children damages the whole of society. Abortion is good for society.
The greatest danger to liberty lurks in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

--Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
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