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Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 04-17-2008, 08:08 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
Laws against abusing children are not passed for "moral" purposes, they are passed because abused children become damaged children, who become damaged adults, who become a drain on society.

So if we could find a way to ensure that abused children did NOT grow up to be damaged adults, then you would have no problems with pedophiles?

It's only the risk that the abuse may manifest itself in an adult that causes us to make pedophilia illegal?






Abusing children damages the whole of society. Abortion is good for society.
So why don't we follow your logic and euthanise abused children so they don't grow up to be damaged adults?

Surely that would be "good for society" by helping to maintain that sense of "order" you seem to crave.

And as you seem to think we don't impose laws to maintain widely held moral values - where's the problem?

You really haven't thought this through have you!
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:09 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Once again a highly illogical post from Gary. No one said anything about what should be done when parents or society fails children and they are damaged. Those idiotic comments are just your way of inflaming the argument. And the same goes for the part about pedophilia being okay if it were proven to not harm kids. Utterly ridiculous.
Old 04-18-2008, 01:46 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Most people believe that killing unborn children falls well outside of acceptable moral behaviour.
You would be wrong. Pro lifers fall into the minority. Sorry to burst your bubble, Gary.
Old 04-18-2008, 06:17 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtables View Post
I believe the point wasn't about whether a 13 year can't get pregnant, it was that she shouldn't carry a child due to bodily immaturity due to the fact that menses has only begun in the recent past, and the possible risks to her well being.

(I'm not forming an opinion on that, just trying to clarify what hotdragon said for fx)
But I addressed that, menses may have been 4 years prior for some young women. From what I read here, there is "possible risk" in any pregnancy, how much greater is it for a 13 year old?
I forgot to include my link..CNN.com - More girls experience early puberty - March 31, 2000

Last edited by fxashun; 04-18-2008 at 06:20 AM.
Old 04-18-2008, 06:26 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
Until the process of gestation is complete, you receive no baby. You have to allow the processes to occur. If a woman chooses to interrupt the process, that's her business.
And I and many others disagree on the "it's her business" part.
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Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
It is too risky for a 13 year old to bear a child. It is also risky for the potential baby.

Teenage Pregnancy - March of Dimes
"A teenage mother is at greater risk than women over age 20 for pregnancy complications, such as premature labor, anemia and high blood pressure (. These risks are even greater for teens who are under 15 years old (."
Howstuffworks "Pregnancy Complications in Teenage Mothers"
"Risks
Compared with mothers in older age groups, teenage mothers are at greater risk of having medical complications. Because the teenage mother is more likely to receive little or no prenatal care, she often becomes anemic and is more likely to develop preeclampsia, a severe condition associated with high blood pressure......

Pelvic bones do not reach their maximum size until about the age of 18; therefore, the pelvis of the teenage mother may not have grown enough to allow vaginal delivery of a normal-size baby. For this reason, the incidence of cesarean section is higher in teenage mothers -- a baby that can be delivered vaginally when the mother is 20 is often too large to have been delivered vaginally when she was 14 years old.

Babies born to teenage mothers are more likely to die in the first year of life compared with babies born to mothers older than 20 years of age. Since the teenage mother is less likely to eat correctly during pregnancy, her baby often has a low birth weight (less than 51/2 pounds), making it more likely the baby will become ill."
There was a study presented earlier in this thread I think that shows that "risk" to the child was negligible and not necessarily due to the age of the mother. A single digit increase in risk is hardly worthy of mentioning.
http://www.defendingthetruth.com/abo...tml#post167819 (Let god be thy judge)

Additionally, the reasons gave had more to do with external forces. Not whether the girl is actually able to have the baby. C-sections are given on demand now. When adjusted for the same conditions of diet, and prenatal care, is there a significant difference? I'm not reading that there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
Laws against abusing children are not passed for "moral" purposes, they are passed because abused children become damaged children, who become damaged adults, who become a drain on society. Abusing children damages the whole of society. Abortion is good for society.
Is all sex between adults and children "abuse" though? The evidence is kinda murky there. This nation was built with what we now consider pedophilia-ish marriages being not all that unusual. We seemed to make it as a nation. The abusive polygamist compound in the news today seem to disprove that all child adult sex isn't necessarily abuse, just illegal...now. Society changed, not people.

Saying it is always "abuse" just justifies the laws to people that already have an aversion to it, just like calling black people animals helped white people enslave them. But really black people are human beings too, and even though it is abhorrent, just having sex with a child is just nasty, and sick, but there is proof all over the world that it ain't always as devastating as CNN makes it out to be.

Last edited by fxashun; 04-18-2008 at 06:43 AM.
Old 04-18-2008, 06:47 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon den Adel View Post
You would be wrong. Pro lifers fall into the minority. Sorry to burst your bubble, Gary.
Actually people that approve of abortion for any reason fall in the minority. Most people approve of some" limitations. It's pretty consistent.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:14 AM   #217 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Actually people that approve of abortion for any reason fall in the minority. Most people approve of some" limitations. It's pretty consistent.
Abortion
She said 'pro-lifers'. People like you and gary who disapprove for any reason.

Most pro-choicers approve of some limitations, including myself.
Old 04-18-2008, 08:31 AM   #218 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady View Post
She said 'pro-lifers'. People like you and gary who disapprove for any reason.

Most pro-choicers approve of some limitations, including myself.
Well I'm not a pro-lifer. Have you been reading? I approve in certain cases. Just not as contraception.
Old 04-18-2008, 08:34 AM   #219 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Well I'm not a pro-lifer. Have you been reading? I approve in certain cases. Just not as contraception.
So, if a woman gets pregnant while using contraception (as I did), you would approve of her getting an abortion?
Old 04-18-2008, 08:46 AM   #220 (permalink)
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Quote:
Is all sex between adults and children "abuse" though? The evidence is kinda murky there. This nation was built with what we now consider pedophilia-ish marriages being not all that unusual. We seemed to make it as a nation. The abusive polygamist compound in the news today seem to disprove that all child adult sex isn't necessarily abuse, just illegal...now. Society changed, not people.
I think that women gaining independence and the right to an education on a mass scale is really what contributed the most to that kind of change. Society also had a larger need for a workforce in the urban areas after the industrial revolution. So as women enter more and more into the areas once controlled by men, the definitions of what was acceptable before was changed. One type of remnant of that earlier time are actually the polygamous cults you see today. The way you defend this young girl/old man scenario makes me wonder if you are a Mormon.

In other words, once women were more free to choose their own destinies, they weren't willing to be child brides controlled by old men. Not that they were ever willing or considered in the decision anyway.

Last edited by waitingtables; 04-18-2008 at 09:04 AM.
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