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abstinence-only sex ed doesn't work

Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 05-14-2008, 03:38 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
In this article, the sexual practices of the gay community are cited as those with greater risk. Both oral and anal sex are cited as what these young people are turning to in lieu of "vaginal sex"...

Do you agree that gay practices are of a higher risk for disease?

OhDear
Where does it say anything about homosexuality? I've re-read the article now 4 times and I haven't seen anything saying that homosexuals were more at risk...

Or are you assuming since they mention anal sex in the article, means they're referring to homosexual anal sex only?

Sorry, but that's NOT what they were implying...They said that because vaginal sex is the focus of 'virginity', that the kids are then engaging in anal and oral sex instead, equating it to 'not having sex and maintaining virginity'...

And that those engaging in those more riskier forms of sexual engagement, are at a higher risk of getting STD's...

Teen Pledges Barely Cut STD Rates, Study Says (washingtonpost.com)
Quote:
Although young people who sign a virginity pledge delay the initiation of sexual activity, marry at younger ages and have fewer sexual partners, they are also less likely to use condoms and more likely to experiment with oral and anal sex, said the researchers from Yale and Columbia universities.

"The sad story is that kids who are trying to preserve their technical virginity are, in some cases, engaging in much riskier behavior," said lead author Peter S. Bearman, a professor at Columbia's Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy. "From a public health point of view, an abstinence movement that encourages no vaginal sex may inadvertently encourage other forms of alternative sex that are at higher risk of STDs."
And the only mention of who was a higher risk to catch STDs was mentioned here...
Quote:
The study did not detect major geographic differences but found that minorities were far more likely to have an STD. About one quarter of African American girls in the survey tested positive for at least one STD in 2002.

In terms of high-risk behavior, the raw numbers were small, but the gap was statistically significant, Bearman said. Just 2 percent of youth who never took a pledge said they had had anal or oral sex but not intercourse, compared with 13 percent of "consistent pledgers."
Note, that makes no mention of orientation...But in fact notes that those at the highest risk of having an STD is MINORITY AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALES...From participating in more risker sexual encounters such as ANAL AND ORAL sex participation...

So please...Point to where the article was talking about homosexuality? In fact, it doesn't...It's talking about HETROSEUXAL teens, and how they are engaging in HETROSEXUAL ORAL AND ANAL SEX, versus VAGINAL SEX, in order to maintain their 'virginity'...

You need to read the article a bit more closely that CF posted...And not add into it's discussion something it wasn't addressing in the first place?
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:45 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Well CF, I was only citing the article you used in this thread! Don't get all miffed at me...

And this in the article again:

It is my firm belief that virginity before marriage or outside of marriage is to include any sexual acts. I really do not believe that the vagina and penis ought to be so extolled as holy and then all other acts that get around those two coming together are counted as permissable. If a young lady or a young man engage in oral or anal sex, they have lost their virginity.

Imagine if this would be taught along with the present abstinence teaching! At present, there is, per the article "some" lessening of STD's by those who practice "vaginal" abstinence. Imagine how much more would be spared STD's with even a greater moral inclusion taught in the abstinence teaching!

OhDear

You didn't cite her article...You added in your own assumptions of who were the ones engaging in the anal sex...When the article itself was clear that the anal sex being engaged in were kids using alternatives to vaginal sex to maintain their 'virginity'...

YOU may think that's losing their virginity, as most adults would also consider that losing one's virginity...Not all adults, but MOST.

But we're not talking about adults here, are we? We're talking about kids who are approaching this abstinence only project focusing solely on vaginal sex being that which means 'losing one's virginity'...

So in their minds, they believe that they're still virgins if they aren't actually engaging in sex acts that produce pregnancies...Which is the focus of abstinence sex ideology...Encouraging kids not to engage in pre-martial sex that can result in unwanted pregnancies...

AND they're using the same argument that a famous ADULT used, when accussed of having 'sex' with someone else...

Bill Clinton's famous comment: 'we didn't engage in sexual relations, we only had oral sex'...
Old 05-14-2008, 03:58 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos View Post
Teen Pledges Barely Cut STD Rates, Study Says

By Ceci Connolly
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 19, 2005; Page A03

Teenagers who take virginity pledges -- public declarations to abstain from sex -- are almost as likely to be infected with a sexually transmitted disease as those who never made the pledge, an eight-year study released yesterday found.

Although young people who sign a virginity pledge delay the initiation of sexual activity, marry at younger ages and have fewer sexual partners, they are also less likely to use condoms and more likely to experiment with oral and anal sex, said the researchers from Yale and Columbia universities.

"The sad story is that kids who are trying to preserve their technical virginity are, in some cases, engaging in much riskier behavior," said lead author Peter S. Bearman, a professor at Columbia's Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy. "From a public health point of view, an abstinence movement that encourages no vaginal sex may inadvertently encourage other forms of alternative sex that are at higher risk of STDs."

Teen Pledges Barely Cut STD Rates, Study Says (washingtonpost.com)

How many teenagers committed to the Silver Ring Thing program were included in this "study"?
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:00 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
How many teenagers committed to the Silver Ring Thing program were included in this "study"?
Who cares? What is the difference between that and any other one of those programs?
Old 05-14-2008, 04:00 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
I am also free from guilt and shame, because I know that sex and other things that make us feel good are gifts from the Goddess and not things to feel dirty about.

Apparently you are also free from the guilt and shame of not paying your medical bills and relying on the rest of us to pay them for you.

Or was that a gift from the "goddess" too?
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:01 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan View Post
Who cares? What is the difference between that and any other one of those programs?
There is no evidence the Silver Ring Thing kids indulge in anal sex as a homosexual-style "safe" alternative.
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:25 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Oh my goodness, Ali...no, I never even implied that the article was about gay sex. However, the article is saying that the riskier sexual practices are oral and anal sex.

That is the only kind of sex that gay people can engage in using their very own bodies, both being of the same sex. And if it is riskier sex for heterosexuals to engage in oral and anal sex, would it not stand to reason that it is also riskier for same sex couples to engage in as well?

And the fault of abstinence curriculum would be found in lacking to inform the students that oral and anal sex practices are indeed sex. I cannot fathom how that cannot count as sex. Again, ask any gay couple if oral and anal sex is consummation of the relationship. Of course oral and anal sex is sex, thus a giving of one's virginity to another.

Or in a more negative way, ask any District Attorney who has ever prosecuted sex offenders, and it is shown that oral and anal sex forced on another is indeed SEX.

I cannot understand how bright young people cannot draw that same conclusion, but if they are looking for loopholes, I believe the abstinence til marriage teachings need to make it clear and close those loopholes.

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Old 05-14-2008, 05:03 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
Oh my goodness, Ali...no, I never even implied that the article was about gay sex. However, the article is saying that the riskier sexual practices are oral and anal sex.

That is the only kind of sex that gay people can engage in using their very own bodies, both being of the same sex. And if it is riskier sex for heterosexuals to engage in oral and anal sex, would it not stand to reason that it is also riskier for same sex couples to engage in as well?

Then you must have a very short memory suddenly OD...Cause you did indeed said that the article was discussing homosexuals being the high risk...Let me remind you with your own post, that I incidentally already included in my previous response to you that you're now responding to and denying what you said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhDear View Post
In this article, the sexual practices of the gay community are cited as those with greater risk. Both oral and anal sex are cited as what these young people are turning to in lieu of "vaginal sex"...
Now do you want to pretend that you didn't say "In this article, the sexual practices of the gay community are cited as those with greater risk."

That is indeed you saying that THE ARTICLE TALKED ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY and it's supposedly being at greater risk...

Not my words OD...YOUR words...

The article made absolutely no mention of anything other then HETROSEXUAL SEX...Your adding into it that it supposedly talked about homosexuality has not a thing to do with with what that article was discussing.

Simply put...Doesn't matter what risks there might/might not be in regards to homosexual sexual intercourse...The article isn't about it so it has nothing to do with the discussion and who you think is/isn't at risk...Or do you now have issues staying on topic and not turning discussions into 'gay sex talk' like your buds FX and Gary?
Old 05-14-2008, 05:07 PM   #89 (permalink)
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What happened to Ali's "Friendliest Award"??
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:35 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Ali quotes me here:
Quote:
In this article, the sexual practices of the gay community are cited as those with greater risk. Both oral and anal sex are cited as what these young people are turning to in lieu of "vaginal sex"...
Now do you see? Look again. I did not say that the article addressed homosexuality at all. I merely saw that the mainstay of sexual practices within the gay community were cited. Reasonably, I could and together the fact that anal and oral sex were cited and anal and oral sex are the mainstay of sexual acts in the gay community.

I found it incredulous that CF would cite that article to speak her piece against abstinence education, since she has waxed eloquently with gay pride. And in that, it has been repeated over and over again here that the sexual practices of gay people are not of any higher risk than the sexual practices of straight couples. And yet here in this article, even when heterosexuals make use of anal and oral sex, it is stated as a fact that CF did not mind using, that those particular sexual practices put young people at greater risk of STDs.

It is reasonable to conclude then that those same practices protected here ad nauseum in hundreds or thousands of posts by the gay members of the DTT are putting them and their community at a higher risk too. And since they cannot resort to vagina/penis sexual acts, they need to realize from the article cited that they too are in need of re-education concerning the safety of what they do. For their own sakes.

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