A WOMAN'S right to choose? - Page 11

Catus Felidae · 05-31-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

What about women who deliberately stop using contraception, without telling their male partners, so they can get pregnant against his will?

Should they be able to keep the baby and force him to pay child support?

They never heard of condoms?

garysher · 05-31-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

They never heard of condoms?

Condoms sometimes fail.

And it's not unusual for a woman to damage a condom, unbeknownst to the man, in the hope that she becomes pregnant and so claims a meal ticket from him.

Catus Felidae · 05-31-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Condoms sometimes fail.

And it's not unusual for a woman to damage a condom, unbeknownst to the man, in the hope that she becomes pregnant and so claims a meal ticket from him.

Meal ticket? Yeah, right. Tell that to the 75% of women who have child support judgments and don't get a dime.

Sharon den Adel · 05-31-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

What about women who deliberately stop using contraception, without telling their male partners, so they can get pregnant against his will?

Should they be able to keep the baby and force him to pay child support?

If the father makes himself perfectly clear BEFORE he has sex that he is does not want a child, then he should be free to opt out of fatherhood. However, if he sticks around until the kid is born, and decides to leave, I say sue the bastard for child support.

paradoxymoron · 06-01-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Men (and women) are held responsible for the born children they concieve simply because it is in the interest of the state for them to be responsible.

In other words, regardless of who may or may not have wanted a child, and regardless of the status of the legality of abortion, men (and women) will be held responsible for their born children because it is in the interest of the state for them to do so.

Hence, your argument is essentially meaningless.

And, besides, could you possibly state any cases today where men are being compelled by the state to act "responsible" while their children are being gestated by women?

Sorry, I don't really understand your argument. I think. If I am understanding it correctly, all I have to do is mention is that divorce is legal and practiced often. That's not in the state's interest but it's still legal. So I don't see why my argument is "meaningless".

and yeah, "deadbeat dads" are tracked down everyday.

Anyhow, your claim that "It's in the best interest of the state" therefore "your argument is meaningless" is a mental path I'm not following. It doesn't speak to my actual argument, either. If a woman has the legal option to abrogate responsibility for a potential child, then so should the father.

paradoxymoron · 06-01-2008, 12:17 AM

Quote:

If the father makes himself perfectly clear BEFORE he has sex that he is does not want a child, then he should be free to opt out of fatherhood. However, if he sticks around until the kid is born, and decides to leave, I say sue the bastard for child support.

That's pretty sexist. She misled him and he's a bastard?

fxashun · 06-01-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

You check on her several times a day, and she doesn't have a dime of spending money that you don't 'know about'.

That sounds like a short leash to me.

She also has access to the records. She has credit cards that are in her name and her own bank/retirement/investment accounts. It's just that I pay the bills and balance the checkbooks. It's not a short leash, it's just the system that we have. It's worked for us thus far, we see no need to change it.
That's the funny thing about "trust", and "love". When you have it, it's not "checking up" when we call each other, it's more like we enjoy each other's company and when thought leave what we are doing at the time, they gravitate toward the person we married. So we call each other.

Quote:

No offense, I'm just curious, but if you trust her, why does she have to be checked on several times a day and account to you for any money she spends?

What? I call her when I leave or and arrive somewhere, and she does the same. That's just something we do. And I don't check her account, I just pay them and have access to all the money. Keeping an eye on the credit card transactions is how you avoid theft and fraud. Most personal finance professionals recommend that you do that. See, you must have something to hide, we don't. She has a corporate account, corporate cellphone, and company issues vehicle as well, all of which can be used for extra curricular activities if she had the urge, I don't worry about that though.
I didn't say she had to account to me for any money she spends. We have been known to rack up over $1k in eating out a month. But it's just common courtesy to let your spouse know when you are gonna buy a new Playstation for $400.

Quote:

I would imagine that it's not most mens 'cup of tea'. But you know, there are just some of us out here that will only settle for some freedom, or total freedom.

Yeah sounds like someone is "settling".

OKgrannie · 06-01-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack

No law has been created that hasn't been violated, it is the nature of man and woman to live as they feel within their own morals. Some rob, rape, kill, steal and some let their grass grow too high or paint their home with too bright colors.

That is true, but the PURPOSE of the law is to eliminate or discourage the "crime". Laws criminalizing abortion DON'T do that. The worst effect of anti-abortion laws is women dying from illegal abortions.

Quote:

When I was a kid growing up in the 1950's women and men knew their place and I'm here to tell you that women and men were much more happy in the 1950's than they are today. Gossip about a teen on vacation to a town to have a baby out of wedlock was transacted in a whisper. I'm sure those who took more drastic measures to remedy such a problem pretty much remained silent but to a close inner circle.

Women were NOT happier in the 1950's. The unreliability of birth control led to a lot of illegal abortions, out-of-wedlock births (for which the woman involved paid dearly and men got off scot-free most of the time), shotgun weddings (which led to the soaring divorce rate), youthful marriages (soaring divorce rate again). Women were expected to be fulltime homemakers/mothers (no choice) unless their husbands were unable to support the family which was socially frowned upon. Women were frequently "knocked around" by husbands who were only "keeping them in their places". Men may miss the kind of "authority" they had in the 1950's, but women don't miss that at all.

Quote:

I didn't say there is never a situation where an abortion might be necesary but said it should be given the gravity of a murder trial.

So what is the proper function of government in establishing the appropriate "gravity"?

Catus Felidae · 06-01-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

[/color]She also has access to the records. She has credit cards that are in her name and her own bank/retirement/investment accounts. It's just that I pay the bills and balance the checkbooks. It's not a short leash, it's just the system that we have. It's worked for us thus far, we see no need to change it.
That's the funny thing about "trust", and "love". When you have it, it's not "checking up" when we call each other, it's more like we enjoy each other's company and when thought leave what we are doing at the time, they gravitate toward the person we married. So we call each other.

What? I call her when I leave or and arrive somewhere, and she does the same. That's just something we do. And I don't check her account, I just pay them and have access to all the money. Keeping an eye on the credit card transactions is how you avoid theft and fraud. Most personal finance professionals recommend that you do that. See, you must have something to hide, we don't. She has a corporate account, corporate cellphone, and company issues vehicle as well, all of which can be used for extra curricular activities if she had the urge, I don't worry about that though.
I didn't say she had to account to me for any money she spends. We have been known to rack up over $1k in eating out a month. But it's just common courtesy to let your spouse know when you are gonna buy a new Playstation for $400.

Yeah sounds like someone is "settling".

I'm glad it work's for you FX. Personally, I would need a little more 'space' to breath, and luckily, my husband would too. That's the beauty of relationships. What works well for one couple wouldn't work for another.

I've had a lot of people on line get very upset about mine and my husbands relationship, but it works for us. We just celebrated 30 years this month, and in all the couples we know, ours seems to be the least stressful marriage.

Congrats to you and your wife for finding what works for you.

Catus Felidae · 06-01-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack

When I was a kid growing up in the 1950's women and men knew their place and I'm here to tell you that women and men were much more happy in the 1950's than they are today.

If men and women were so happy with things the way they were in the 50's, why did things change?

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