Originally Posted by Catus Felidae

Originally Posted by waitingtables

The baby doesn't have a life yet, it's life is dependent on it's development in the womb. And a first trimester fetus could not live outside it's mother's body if it were removed.

A two DAY old baby will not live very long outside the womb. Neither will a two month old, or even a two year old.

It has nothing to do with Islam at all. A mother is a mother no matter what religion you are. I simply think that it is apparent to me that all of those religions have done an awful lot of damage to the mother and to women in general. And that they are all off balance in regards to the human condition. And that it doesn't have to be that way. And that I picked up from your posts that you might have a problem with women because of your adherence to the literal translation of the Bible.

I don't have any problems with women. Based on your posts, you obviously have a problem with all men. Did a man hurt you? A Christian man? You have so much hatred and anger towards Christianity, especially the men. Why?

Yes, even more than you know. There are some women who have been completely removed or been altered into something other than what they truly were. And none of them in the Bible are given equal position as men, because that is how that society believed it should be. And that is okay for 2000 years ago, but not any longer. To use the Biblical women as a defence for religious misogyny is not furthering your point.

The Bible builds tells me that men and women are equal; they are just different. It seems to me that you want to elevate women above the status of men. The Bible tells me that men and women complete each other, but you state that men and women should compete with each other.

My argument is not against women, or their role in society; yet you keep going back to that point.


The Supreme Court has decided that in the case of abortion the state has the right to set the limit for how long a woman has to have an abortion. In most states it is up until 24 weeks. I think that is too long, and that it should be restricted to the first trimester unless the health of the mother is at stake.


No, not mentally either. You are not a woman, and cannot mentally relate to what it is to be a woman, or a mother. No matter how much you think you can.

Originally Posted by OnTheLeft

That was an outstanding post, waitingtables!

Originally Posted by cactusman

But I am capable of feeling and emotion; emotions are not exclusively for women.

Originally Posted by cactusman

So then mothers shouldn't have children?


That's totally up to them.

I do consider the mother; but why blame the child for the rapist's act?


Obviously you don't. You also don't know very much about the psychological damage done to a rape victim. Or you just don't like women.


Its not because they can't; its because they won't comprehend the question.

A thirty year old woman with the intellectual development of a two year old simply cannot comprehend the question.

Look into the eyes of a retarded, severely retarded, child and see the joy they have when they play or discover something new.

I have. I've seen a fifty five year old man break into tears and literally jump up and down with joy at finally learning to tie his shoe laces. I've also seen an eleven year old with no working brain lie in a hospital bed hooked up to machines for his entire life.

Retarded/developmentally challenged people are some of the nicest, happiest people I know; maybe if you spent some time with them you would 'know' that I know that you know that I know.


I'm guessing from your posts that you worked at a camp, or training facility for the mentally challenged. I'm guessing that those you worked with were the 'higher level' disabled. Those capable of learning simple tasks and functioning to a point in the 'real world'.

I'm guessing you've never even seen the 'back rooms'.



Worst case scenario, same old mantra. Who are you to decide that someone will live an inferior life, without potential, and must suffer. If thats the case; if, based on your logic and reasoning, under privileged people are better off aborted; then you've justified the Holocaust, Rwandan and Armenian genocides, as well as Darfur and any other ethnic cleansing where a group saw another as inferior, or whatever. According to your logic, we should humanely abort every child born outside of privilege... as long as women can have this right.

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Of course, if it isn't cared for! That is not what I meant and it doesn't speak to the point. A two day old, two month old, two year old child can survive outside of the mother's womb without dying because it's system isn't too immature to be outside of the womb. A first trimester fetus will die outside of the womb no matter how much care and nurturing and medical assistence it recieves, because it hasn't sufficiently developed the necessary things for survival yet.

Originally Posted by OnTheLeft

This is true.

Again, a fetus is not a baby - not at that stage of development. A woman should never be forced to breed. I agree we should make efforts to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. That only makes sense. However forced gestation is NOT the answer, especially in a country that claims it's citizens are free.