Different time zone. I'm sitting in Pakistan.

ANyhow i have not proven anything at all. The argument really is all abstract. My contention is that if a woman's body is able to naturally abort, do you think women can learn to control that. Even so, the fact that women can lose a child naturally implies that the woman's body is able to decide whether the present is the time to have a child or not. What's the harm in allowing that choice to be conscious and involving a surgical procedure?

It would certainly be interesting if women could gain more control of this function in the future.

you stated that *the fact is that in both cases it is the mother's choice *(abortion and miscarriage).
I disagree that most miscarriages are the mother's choice.
A whole lot of them happen before the woman knows she is pregnant. And many others cause her a lot of heartbreak.

The harm would be that one is deliberate killing.
As of now, miscarriage is generally not deliberately induced, no matter what hopes you hold of that happening in the future.
Whatever.
No more interest in this topic.

Fair enough. Just an exploration thought.

I would however say this much. The fact that nature has imbued women with the internal facility of discarding a fetus, shows to me that maybe abortion isn't any more contrary to nature than a blood transfusion is.

I belive that the reason women cannot control this mechanism yet is because humanity is not smart enough to know exactly when an abortion is needed and when it is not. But the only way women will learn is if they have the option to make mistakes.

Taking the guilt of a fetal death upon yourselves is just silly when there is plenty of other lives that you could be fighting for. Like iraqis. An unborn fetus is not as important as living breathing human anywhere on the planet.

What's *just silly* is your false dichotomy above. I do not have to select one or the other, I have several other causes I devote myself to besides trying to stop abortion-on-demand.
You are going to have to do a lot better than that if you hope to discourage the tens of thousands of us who are steadily progressing in this cause.

Dear friend i wish you all the luck in the world. I sincerely hope that no woman gets an abortion EVER. However i disagree with legislative interference because it does not help at all. All it does it that it makes criminals of some women and endangers the lives of those women who want an abortion at all costs.

Women already "control"(?) to some extent having an abortion: they get so emotionally upset over something that they miscarry.... True it is not common, but it happens. Why can't it be within the realm of possiblity that a woman can have some sort of mind and physical control over her body from within? Then the need for an abortion done by another would be moot. Life sure is funny: one woman looks to abort an unwanted baby while another mourns a miscarriage...... You want a little beastie or you do not.... (I have four of them.) (That is sarcasm....)

Interesting thread. Isn't it true that usually there is something wrong with the embryo/fetus in a miscarriage? If so, the "wrongness" is probably what is sensed by a woman's body. Then again, this doesn't explain stillborn pregnancies...
And if a woman could control a miscarriage, she could also control what date she gives birth.

Actually, women today have no control over miscarriage....but severe emotional upset can cause it whether you want it or not.....however it is not that common.... Many early pregnancies self-abort due to something wrong with the fetus and others due to implantation or retention problems. Some have no known cause.... Even in a late miscarriage or stillbirth, something goes wrong, even if it is not the baby itself. Maternal diabetes can make for a large baby, and doctors like to deliver it early (say by a few weeks) to prevent the baby from dying in utero..... ......Maybe SOMEDAY women will have mind and physical control over keeping or aborting a baby, though even I admit it can't be done today......and it doesn't look likely in the near future..... Peace.

I am a huge Dune fan, and I have read all the books by Frank Herbert, as well as the new books by his son, while I recall the the Bene Gesserit sisterhood had the ability to control their bodies, especially in controlling the sex of the baby, not once do I recall them having the ability to abort on demand. In fact, in the books, the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam actually had to kill her own first baby by suffocation, after it was born. Hmmm so it would seem your initial hypothesis may be a little incorrect.

dmk