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Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 10-14-2006, 07:47 AM   #41 (permalink)
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You know what, it is time that someone that actually has a basic understanding of medicine chips in with his two cents worth. That is right as a medical technician I am going to share with you of lesser medical knowledge the truth about stems cells.

Fact number one, as of this time, embryonic stem cell research has failed to provide a single cure. That is right folks, all attempts using embryonic stems cells have failed. Cases in point.....

Researchers in China met with a disastrous result. Fetal tissue injected into a patient’s brain produced temporary improvement, but within two years the patient developed a brain tumor and died. An autopsy revealed that the fetal cells had taken root, but had then metamorphed into other types of human tissue – hair, skin and bone. These grew into the tumor, which killed the patient.

A devastating result occurred at Columbia University’s College of Physicians and Surgeons, and was published in the New England Journal of Medicine.

In some of the patients, the implanted embryonic cells apparently grew too well, churning out so much of a chemical that controls movement that they writhed and jerked uncontrollably. Dr. Paul E. Greene called the uncontrollable movements developed by some patients as “absolutely devastating.” He said, “They chew constantly, their fingers go up and down, their writs flex and distend. It’s a real nightmare. And we can’t selectively turn it off. No more fetal transplants. We are absolutely and adamantly convinced that this should be considered for research only.”

Now, true stem cell research, that is adult stem cells have met with nothing but success.

Researchers at Harvard Medical School say adult stem cells may eliminate the need for embryonic ones. The researchers experienced a permanent reversal of Type 1 diabetes in mice by killing the cells responsible for the diabetes. The animals’ adult stem cells took over and regenerated missing cells needed to produce insulin and eliminate the disease. The results hold promise for rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus and more than 50 other ailments.

At the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, a man with a rare, potentially fatal skin disorder that was so severe that he could no longer eat, is now symptom-free after receiving a transplant of his own adult stem cells.

Doctors at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago extracted the adult stem cells from the blood of two Crohn’s patients and successfully used them to rebuild their faulty immune systems.

Dr. Edward Holland of the Northern Kentucky Eye Laser Center in the greater Cincinnati metropolitan area, is using adult stem cell transplants as part of a treatment to dramatically improve the eyesight of his patients.

New research in the UK on rats indicates that transplants of adult stem cells can help stroke victims regain movement, senses and understanding. They also show that the adult cells were more effective than cells from aborted babies.

A study by the Institute for Stem Cell Research in Milan, Italy showed that certain cells from the brains of adult rats can be used to generate muscular tissue.

Scientists at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of NJ have found that bone marrow cells may be converted into replacement nerve cells, able to treat brain and nerve injuries. Dr. Ira Black and his team were able to convert 80% of the bone marrow cells into nerve cells.

If the government is going to get involved with funding medical research, then it should fund research that is actually working!!!!

Adult stem cell research is providing cures, and it would seem that thus far embryonic stem cell research is no where near that fact. It would also seem from much of the literature available that it will never provide cures.

Dr. Mary Davenport, an obstetrician-gynecologist said, "The fact that adult stem cells have already produced remarkable cures, whereas embryonic stem cells have failed in this regard, should not come as a great surprise to anyone with a background in high school biology."

Furthermore, President Bush has not banned all embryonic stem cell research, rather just limited to the 72 lines that are currently available. The truth of the matter is that thus far embryonic stem cell research is a bust. Instead of listening to those that wish to extend the death culture in this country, perhaps we should follow those who value life. Adult stem cells are providing cures, two of the ladies that testified before the Senate on Stem Cell research walked in to the hearings thanks to Adult stem cells, yet no one is crying for more funding to this remarkably successful treatment, instead, people are crying afoul because the President would rather remember the sanctity of life.

Know the facts, when you do the argument is more powerful. Thus far the facts support the decision of the President, and not the crying of the know-nothings.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
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Old 10-14-2006, 11:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
Furthermore, President Bush has not banned all embryonic stem cell research, rather just limited to the 72 lines that are currently available. The truth of the matter is that thus far embryonic stem cell research is a bust. Instead of listening to those that wish to extend the death culture in this country, perhaps we should follow those who value life. Adult stem cells are providing cures, two of the ladies that testified before the Senate on Stem Cell research walked in to the hearings thanks to Adult stem cells, yet no one is crying for more funding to this remarkably successful treatment, instead, people are crying afoul because the President would rather remember the sanctity of life.

Know the facts, when you do the argument is more powerful. Thus far the facts support the decision of the President, and not the crying of the know-nothings.

dmk
Thanks for all your information. Do you have sources for all of it? I'd like to check them out.

I have a hard time with the sanctity of life that the president selectively remembers. Life is life, no matter what stage of development. Blastocyte, zygote, embryo, fetus, neonate, toddler, child, teen, adult, geriatric adult - these are all life stages. In my opinion, it is better to remember the sanctity of life at all stages. I do not see the current administration doing this, unless perhaps it is American lives they are looking at. But some of us actually believe the bolded phrase in the Declaration of Independence (link below): "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." ... I find it hard to accept the "collateral damage" caused by pre-emptive war, for example, and also find it hard to accept the premise that American lives are worth more than people from other countries.

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Old 10-14-2006, 02:43 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Thanks for all your information. Do you have sources for all of it? I'd like to check them out.

I have a hard time with the sanctity of life that the president selectively remembers. Life is life, no matter what stage of development. Blastocyte, zygote, embryo, fetus, neonate, toddler, child, teen, adult, geriatric adult - these are all life stages. In my opinion, it is better to remember the sanctity of life at all stages. I do not see the current administration doing this, unless perhaps it is American lives they are looking at. But some of us actually believe the bolded phrase in the Declaration of Independence (link below): "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." ... I find it hard to accept the "collateral damage" caused by pre-emptive war, for example, and also find it hard to accept the premise that American lives are worth more than people from other countries.

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That's fair enough.

I don't completely agree, but I do believe you're being consistent. Thank you.
Old 10-14-2006, 03:33 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Here are a few sources of some of sgtdmski quotes:

Parkinson's Research Is Set Back By Failure of Fetal Cell Implants - New York Times
"A carefully controlled study that tried to treat Parkinson's disease by implanting cells from aborted fetuses into patients' brains not only failed to show an overall benefit but also revealed a disastrous side effect, scientists report."

Embryonic Verses Adult Stem Cells?
"Researchers at Harvard Medical School say adult stem cells may eliminate the need for embryonic ones. The researchers experienced a permanent reversal of Type 1 diabetes in mice by killing the cells responsible for the diabetes. The animals’ adult stem cells took over and regenerated missing cells needed to produce insulin and eliminate the disease. The results hold promise for rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus and more than 50 other ailments."

Non-Embryonic Stem Cell Successes
New York, NY -- "A man with a rare, potentially fatal skin disorder that was so severe that he could no longer eat is now symptom-free after receiving a transplant of his own adult stem cells, doctors in Texas report. The result is the latest of many such reports that show the potential for adult stem cells to be used in place of life-destroying embryonic stem cell research."

Adult Stem Cells More Effective Than Those From Aborted Babies
LONDON - "New research has raised further hope that adult stem cells can be used to repair the damage caused by strokes to brain cells, British scientists heard Monday."
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Old 10-14-2006, 10:23 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven M View Post
Here are a few sources of some of sgtdmski quotes:

Parkinson's Research Is Set Back By Failure of Fetal Cell Implants - New York Times
"A carefully controlled study that tried to treat Parkinson's disease by implanting cells from aborted fetuses into patients' brains not only failed to show an overall benefit but also revealed a disastrous side effect, scientists report."

Embryonic Verses Adult Stem Cells?
"Researchers at Harvard Medical School say adult stem cells may eliminate the need for embryonic ones. The researchers experienced a permanent reversal of Type 1 diabetes in mice by killing the cells responsible for the diabetes. The animals’ adult stem cells took over and regenerated missing cells needed to produce insulin and eliminate the disease. The results hold promise for rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus and more than 50 other ailments."

Non-Embryonic Stem Cell Successes
New York, NY -- "A man with a rare, potentially fatal skin disorder that was so severe that he could no longer eat is now symptom-free after receiving a transplant of his own adult stem cells, doctors in Texas report. The result is the latest of many such reports that show the potential for adult stem cells to be used in place of life-destroying embryonic stem cell research."

Adult Stem Cells More Effective Than Those From Aborted Babies
LONDON - "New research has raised further hope that adult stem cells can be used to repair the damage caused by strokes to brain cells, British scientists heard Monday."
Actually, all of sgtdmski's quotes are found on Embryonic Verses Adult Stem Cells?. As if he copied and pasted but did not give credit.

Sigh... I shall have to find the journal articles myself. Regular news articles and articles found on right to life websites do not suffice.
Old 10-15-2006, 12:32 AM   #46 (permalink)
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The sources for my information came from CAP TODAY, which is the College of American Pathologist monthly magazine. The information was spread out over several different issues beginning in December of 2005 and ending in July of 2006. Most were probably excerpts taken from various newspapers. I had copied down several of the facts over the course of reading the articles.

Since much of stem cell research occurs in the laboratory, CAP Today often offers such various tidbits. Sorry I forgot to post my reference. Some of the information also came from a CAP inservice that I recently attended. Which probably was a compilation of the various information in the magazine.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
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Old 10-15-2006, 09:49 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Thanks, I will have to check out the CAP website.

Did the inservice go into the various types of stem cells? Embryonic stem cells are different from adult stem cells, and to call adult stem cells "true" stem cells is misleading. My understanding is that adult stem cells have the genes for other cell types, but the genes are turned off, and can only develop into a few cell types, whereas embryonic stem cells can develop into *any* cell type.

For a tutorial on what stem cells are, the differences, and more, see: Life Sciences at Michigan Research. I do not know what date the tutorial was made.

My thoughts on supporting research: We do not know what the potential benefits are yet as the science is still in its infancy. To support only research on adult stem cells and ignore embryonic stem cell research would be foolish. We need to research all types of stem cells, including cancer stem cells.
Old 10-17-2006, 03:05 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Stem cells are progenitor cells, meaning that they have the ability to grow into other needed cells. The difference between adult and embryonic cells is that the adult cells are more specialized, the cells actually belong to a certain line, i.e. muscle, nervous, hepatic, etc. Embryonic cells have yet to be differentiated. This is the problem with the use of the embryonic cells, since they are the base cell and have yet to be differentiated how can you use them to treat disease. The one fact we do know is that the embryonic cells we eventually differentiate into what they meant to be. That is why the case of the brain tumor was so important, although initially it began to repair nerve cells, the stem cells continued to differentiate into hair and skin cells causing a new tumor. We are unable to manipulate stem cells into other cells.

Using the term stem cells in reference to adult cells is not misleading at all. These cells are just what they say they are, the beginning of a line.

The fact remains that although embryonic cells have the potential to turn into any of a number of different cells, we cannot control what cells that they turn into. It would seem that they have a predestined nature.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:33 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Adult stem cells are the precursor cells to *some* cells.
Embryonic stem cells are the precursor cells to *all* other cells. As such, they have tremendous potential, which is why they need to be studied. What controls them? How does it control them? What interferes with the process? When and how do the various genes get turned off? Can the process be controlled? What kinds of antigens are on embryonic stem cells vs adult stem cells? Do they develop antigens as they develop into mature cells? Do you have to type them before you can use them for treatment, like you do for blood transfusions, bone marrow transplants, or other transplants?
These are just some of the questions that I hope are answered.
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