Dems Ignore Abortion's Negative Effects - Page 2

Jefferson · 08-03-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

If you actually wanted less abortions you would be for free birth control and condoms for everyone.

It is clear this is not what you want. You just want your religious ideals reflected in our system of law. Petty at best. This is something that would AUCTUALLY make a huge impact on the number of abortions in the US.

How about we provide free vascetomies for all teenage boys and free "tube-tying" for all the girls.

99.99% effective.

DONE DEAL!

hevusa · 08-03-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

Well, what is wrong with saying that one should refrain from having sex if one is not ready to raise children. Sexual intercourse when not related to procreation is nothing more than self-gratification.

What is wrong with it??? Everything. People will have sex regardless of what your religious views think about it. People are going to continue to "Self-Gratify" each other till the cows come home and then some. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to think that simply asking people to refrain will make a difference.

Which is why you are only reinforcing that you actually aren't interested in lowering the amount of abortions, you simply want to see your religious ideals reflected in law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtmski

If you wish to have sex that is your choice, however, it should not become my responsiblilty to take care of your mistakes.
dmk

Children that are not wanted are a far higher economic, emotional, and social burden than providing free condoms and birth control to those who want it.

alias · 08-03-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

If you actually wanted less abortions you would be for free birth control and condoms for everyone.

It is clear this is not what you want. You just want your religious ideals reflected in our system of law. Petty at best. This is something that would AUCTUALLY make a huge impact on the number of abortions in the US.

Teenagers should be under the control of their parents, not the schools. It is a decision of the parents if their child under 18 gets an abortion or not. Religion has nothing to do with it. Parental control has everything to do with it.

foundit66 · 08-03-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

You can be for less abortions without giving out free condoms and birth control. There is such a thing as being principled and holding true to ones beliefs. We have become a nation where the mantra from Nike is so apparent. JUST DO IT. Well, what is wrong with saying that one should refrain from having sex if one is not ready to raise children.

"what is wrong with..." is assuming that one position has to be "right" while the others are "wrong".
There is nothing "wrong" with that philosophy.
But by the same token, there is nothing wrong with sexual intercourse for the purpose of mutual gratification and strengthening a relationship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

Sexual intercourse when not related to procreation is nothing more than self-gratification.

So you're greedy during sex? Got it.

Just joking Sarge. But by the same token, what the heck is wrong with self-gratification? I selfishly work out on a regular basis to feel better. To "gratify" myself. Is that wrong?

You may have a problem with self-gratification, but I feel a need to see something more inherently wrong with it before condemning it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

One does not need to have sex to have a good time. One can delay self-gratification until such time as one is ready and responsible enough to face the outcome of their actions.

Nobody is arguing you have to have sex to have a good time.
Nobody is arguing you can't delay self-gratification.

This isn't an issue of people claiming your position is wrong.
We're questioning why it should be considered as the ONLY position that should be taught to our kids in school.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

If you wish to have sex that is your choice, however, it should not become my responsiblilty to take care of your mistakes. Somewhere along the line, a true citizen takes responsibility for their actions. A subject allows others to so.
dmk

That's all well and good in a hypothetical world, but what do we do when reality hits the fan and people don't behave as you tell them they should?

foundit66 · 08-03-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

How about we provide free vascetomies for all teenage boys and free "tube-tying" for all the girls.
99.99% effective.
DONE DEAL!

IMO, one of the "rights" that we as a nation have left virtually alone and seen the least governmental infringement on is the "right" to reproduce.
If a woman has multiple crack babies, it's a fairly big deal if a judge wants to impose restrictions on the woman's procreative capability.
(And to just throw my opinion out there, it's a no-brainer. If a woman demonstrates she's just going to keep producing crack babies, tie her tubes. But for others, it's a big deal and it's an action I have only heard of once.)

Personally, I can't help but wonder how much better it would be if we followed a solution like yours, and had the people prove their capability to care for a child before procreating.

Obviously just a hypothetical idea to think about and not something to put into policy, but it makes one think...

Jefferson · 08-03-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

IMO, one of the "rights" that we as a nation have left virtually alone and seen the least governmental infringement on is the "right" to reproduce.
If a woman has multiple crack babies, it's a fairly big deal if a judge wants to impose restrictions on the woman's procreative capability.
(And to just throw my opinion out there, it's a no-brainer. If a woman demonstrates she's just going to keep producing crack babies, tie her tubes. But for others, it's a big deal and it's an action I have only heard of once.)

Personally, I can't help but wonder how much better it would be if we followed a solution like yours, and had the people prove their capability to care for a child before procreating.

Obviously just a hypothetical idea to think about and not something to put into policy, but it makes one think...

You need a college degree to TEACH children, but you don't even need half a brain to MAKE children.

alias · 08-03-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

What is wrong with it??? Everything. People will have sex regardless of what your religious views think about it. People are going to continue to "Self-Gratify" each other till the cows come home and then some. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to think that simply asking people to refrain will make a difference.

Which is why you are only reinforcing that you actually aren't interested in lowering the amount of abortions, you simply want to see your religious ideals reflected in law.

Children that are not wanted are a far higher economic, emotional, and social burden than providing free condoms and birth control to those who want it.

If you are going to have sex then take responsibility. I am not responsible for someone else's kid. When you make a mistake, you fix it, not me. You don't like people being responsibile do you?

alias · 08-03-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

"what is wrong with..." is assuming that one position has to be "right" while the others are "wrong".
There is nothing "wrong" with that philosophy.
But by the same token, there is nothing wrong with sexual intercourse for the purpose of mutual gratification and strengthening a relationship.

So you're greedy during sex? Got it.

Just joking Sarge. But by the same token, what the heck is wrong with self-gratification? I selfishly work out on a regular basis to feel better. To "gratify" myself. Is that wrong?

You may have a problem with self-gratification, but I feel a need to see something more inherently wrong with it before condemning it.

Nobody is arguing you have to have sex to have a good time.
Nobody is arguing you can't delay self-gratification.

This isn't an issue of people claiming your position is wrong.
We're questioning why it should be considered as the ONLY position that should be taught to our kids in school.

That's all well and good in a hypothetical world, but what do we do when reality hits the fan and people don't behave as you tell them they should?

If people don't behave as they should, why should I pay for it? Everyone is responsible for their own actions. The sooner you learn that as a youth the better your life will be. If a 16-year-old boy and his 15-year-old girlfriend get pregnant, that boy and girl has a responsibility. Not me. I took care of my own kids and told them the facts of life and the consequences. If someone else's kids get in trouble, then it's their problem and their parent's problem, not the state or mine.

foundit66 · 08-04-2006, 11:42 AM

How the heck did we get from providing birth control to "paying" for mistakes?
Especially when it should be fairly obvious that NOT providing birth control would lead to an INCREASE in any "paying" for "mistakes"...
Do we really need to drag out the statistics on how wildly unsuccessful "abstinence only" programs are in trying to keep down teen-age pregnancy?

And I find some irony in tying two threads together. Here, we have people who don't want to "pay" for the "mistakes" of others, but they are more than willing to push "for" the interests of the poor in schooling. Private schooling that is, not public schooling.

So when we stick the "mistake" in a private school on the tax-payer's dime, THAT is when we suddenly shift to WANTING to pay for the "mistake"???

alias · 08-04-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

How the heck did we get from providing birth control to "paying" for mistakes?
Especially when it should be fairly obvious that NOT providing birth control would lead to an INCREASE in any "paying" for "mistakes"...
Do we really need to drag out the statistics on how wildly unsuccessful "abstinence only" programs are in trying to keep down teen-age pregnancy?

And I find some irony in tying two threads together. Here, we have people who don't want to "pay" for the "mistakes" of others, but they are more than willing to push "for" the interests of the poor in schooling. Private schooling that is, not public schooling.

So when we stick the "mistake" in a private school on the tax-payer's dime, THAT is when we suddenly shift to WANTING to pay for the "mistake"???

Paying for mistakes is different than paying for education. When you make a mistake in life, YOU pay for it, not the next guy. It's called responsibility. I know that's a foreign word to liberals because responsibility is always something for other people and not you.

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