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07-03-2009, 06:09 PM
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#31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waitingtables  It's not supposed to have more claim to Constitutional rights than the woman, until it has the possibility of living a life. The woman has the right to determine when to follow through with a pregnancy. Again, you're wrong. | And yet states can place very strict regulation starting at less than 20 weeks. The current law is a compromise.
If the "right" were that black and white, the makup of the Supreme Court would make no difference.
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Last edited by fxashun; 07-03-2009 at 06:19 PM.
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07-03-2009, 06:31 PM
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#32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fxashun And yet states can place very strict regulation starting at less than 20 weeks. The current law is a compromise.
If the "right" were that black and white, the makup of the Supreme Court would make no difference. |
It isn't a compromise, it is about when the fetus can possibly survive outside the womb and be considered a person. I don't know where you get your ideas from, but I get mine from the Court's decision on the matter. And from common sense. It seems pretty clear and intelligible to me. I've had two fetus' in my body, and I know when I felt life and when I didn't. And it was never before the 4th month, if not the beginning of the 5th. | |
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07-03-2009, 06:41 PM
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#33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waitingtables It isn't a compromise, it is about when the fetus can possibly survive outside the womb and be considered a person. I don't know where you get your ideas from, but I get mine from the Court's decision on the matter. And from common sense. It seems pretty clear and intelligible to me. I've had two fetus' in my body, and I know when I felt life and when I didn't. And it was never before the 4th month, if not the beginning of the 5th. | If you were using common sense, you'd see the hypocrisy in feticide laws and abortion laws. And you'll see that most people that WANT their baby knows what it is as soon as the pee stick turns blue. One of my wife's friends is 2 weeks along and she's not celebrating carrying a "mass of cells". She and her husband are expecting a baby. Which is what most pregnant people expect. It takes a huge suspension of reality to say you are using "common sense" in defending abortion.
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07-03-2009, 07:16 PM
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#34 (permalink)
| | mouth almighty
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Originally Posted by fxashun If you were using common sense, you'd see the hypocrisy in feticide laws and abortion laws. And you'll see that most people that WANT their baby knows what it is as soon as the pee stick turns blue. One of my wife's friends is 2 weeks along and she's not celebrating carrying a "mass of cells". She and her husband are expecting a baby. Which is what most pregnant people expect. It takes a huge suspension of reality to say you are using "common sense" in defending abortion. |
No it doesn't. One woman being pregnant and happy about it has nothing to do with another woman who is pregnant and doesn't feel that way. Defending abortion has nothing to do with suspending reality, it is a fact of life that many women have to deal with every day, and it is the hardest decision that they have to make. You have no idea what it is like and you never will. And it isn't your place to say what they should be feeling or what they can do whith their own body. Hypocrisy in feticide and abortion laws? But you're not pro-life, right? The only hypocrisy I see is that you think you know better than a woman about pregnancy and motherhood based on your observations of them. | |
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07-03-2009, 09:38 PM
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#35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waitingtables No it doesn't. One woman being pregnant and happy about it has nothing to do with another woman who is pregnant and doesn't feel that way. | Pregnancy happens no matter how you feel about it. It's rather inevitable if you have sex. And the result of the egg and sperm meeting is rather simple too. Or we wouldn't be talking about abortion. Quote: |
Defending abortion has nothing to do with suspending reality, it is a fact of life that many women have to deal with every day, and it is the hardest decision that they have to make. You have no idea what it is like and you never will.
| Maybe the FIRST decision they should have made was to choose a more effective birth control method. Quote: |
And it isn't your place to say what they should be feeling or what they can do whith their own body. Hypocrisy in feticide and abortion laws? But you're not pro-life, right? The only hypocrisy I see is that you think you know better than a woman about pregnancy and motherhood based on your observations of them.
| No, this is a debate site. I have just as much right her to voice my opinion against abortion as you do to defend it. That's the funny thing about you, you seem to forget we are here to present opinion.
But no, I'm not "pro-life", and I actually think the feticide laws could be considered pandering to get cotes more than any real concern for the fetus. But the laws ARE hypocritical when juxtaposed with abortion law.
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07-05-2009, 08:28 PM
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#36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fxashun Naa, it's a compromise.
It's a compromise that puts the woman's will above the life of the fetus for an arbitrary number of weeks. | exactly. you are happy with this compromise. or at least are prepared to accept it. you can accept killing "innocent babies" up to an arbitrary number of weeks post conception. but you are not happy with the same compromise after delivery.
why draw the line mid gestation? why not an arbitrary number of weeks after delivery?
this is the question you are continuing to dodge:
what is the difference between a foetus and a baby?
there has to be some difference, because even when all other things are equal, even in the situation where there is no consent to sex or pregnancy, even when the decision to "end its life" is made immediately, killing a foetus is an acceptable medical procedure and killing a baby is murder.
what does a baby have that a foetus doesnt? | |
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07-05-2009, 10:36 PM
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#37 (permalink)
| | mouth almighty
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Originally Posted by fxashun Pregnancy happens no matter how you feel about it. It's rather inevitable if you have sex. And the result of the egg and sperm meeting is rather simple too. Or we wouldn't be talking about abortion.
Maybe the FIRST decision they should have made was to choose a more effective birth control method.
No, this is a debate site. I have just as much right her to voice my opinion against abortion as you do to defend it. That's the funny thing about you, you seem to forget we are here to present opinion.
But no, I'm not "pro-life", and I actually think the feticide laws could be considered pandering to get cotes more than any real concern for the fetus. But the laws ARE hypocritical when juxtaposed with abortion law. | Pregnancy happens no matter how you feel about it has absolutely nothing at all to do with what we were talking about. You can't stay on topic can you. What one woman feels about being pregnant doesn't define how all women feel when they are prgenant, and it doesn't mean that you or anyone else has the right to decide for her wht she does from that point on.
And as for it being a debate site, that is true, but what you can't see is that your opinion is only relevant to you and it doesn't make it right. Debates do have winners and losers.
No need for juxtaposing any laws, they are different because the cases of killing something that is a person and having an abortion are two totally different things. If you can't differentiate between the two, that isn't my problem. | |
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07-06-2009, 08:42 AM
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#38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hot dragon exactly. you are happy with this compromise. or at least are prepared to accept it. you can accept killing "innocent babies" up to an arbitrary number of weeks post conception. but you are not happy with the same compromise after delivery. | No, it's not that simple. A reported rape causes a pregnancy, that's at the beginning, then she misses a perod etc. It is up to the woman NOT to wait an arbitrary number of weeks. There is a window or opportunity there. Make it 1 week, make it 4 weeks., but it'll NEVER reach after delivery. Quote: |
why draw the line mid gestation? why not an arbitrary number of weeks after delivery?
| Because you aren't keeping the woman from raising a child due to rape, you are specifically allowing her the decision not to be pregnant at all. Two entirely different issues. Quote:
this is the question you are continuing to dodge:
what is the difference between a foetus and a baby?
| I'm not dodging it. It's irrelevant to the point. The difference is the point in development. Quote: |
there has to be some difference, because even when all other things are equal, even in the situation where there is no consent to sex or pregnancy, even when the decision to "end its life" is made immediately, killing a foetus is an acceptable medical procedure and killing a baby is murder.
| The difference in the second hypothetical is that the baby was born, she had already carried it to term. The rape compromise has to do with the pregnancy itself and not the ZEF and once the baby was born, there was no longer a pregnancy to avoid. Quote: |
what does a baby have that a foetus doesnt?
| I hope I cleared that up for you. In the compromise for rape, it's not about what the baby has at all.
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07-06-2009, 08:44 AM
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#39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by waitingtables Pregnancy happens no matter how you feel about it has absolutely nothing at all to do with what we were talking about. You can't stay on topic can you. What one woman feels about being pregnant doesn't define how all women feel when they are prgenant, and it doesn't mean that you or anyone else has the right to decide for her wht she does from that point on.
And as for it being a debate site, that is true, but what you can't see is that your opinion is only relevant to you and it doesn't make it right. Debates do have winners and losers.
No need for juxtaposing any laws, they are different because the cases of killing something that is a person and having an abortion are two totally different things. If you can't differentiate between the two, that isn't my problem. | You seem to have forgotten this entire thread is about opinions. There was a hypothetical given and opinions queried. Not only is this a debate site, but this particular thread is specifically about opinions. Get a grip.
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07-06-2009, 10:10 AM
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#40 (permalink)
| | mouth almighty
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Originally Posted by fxashun You seem to have forgotten this entire thread is about opinions. There was a hypothetical given and opinions queried. Not only is this a debate site, but this particular thread is specifically about opinions. Get a grip. |
Oh, I haven't forgotten it's about opinions. I just think your opinion is less valuable because of your bigotry towards women. | |
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