No. Our technology is not the limiting factor here.
That's a false claim on your part.


And this exemplifies why I don't engage this issue. Because it typically is devoid of reason.

I just pointed out that there is a point where the fetus has no heart-beat, and according to you that means there is no life.

But you STILL INSIST that I am "murderering" the fetus which you admit isn't alive at that stage.

If a woman aborts a fetus which has no heart-beat, is that still murder?
Can you "murder" something which is not alive?

I think if you substituted something else for "homos" your point might be better made......

in other words just because something is legal doesn't make it right. or just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong

I know that, you know that and foundit knows that, but he only admits that when it suits his agenda and we ALL know that.

No one is paying attention to anything I post!

When does the heart begin to beat?

At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period], and by 21 days it is pumping, through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother. J.M. Tanner, G. R. Taylor, and the Editors of Time-Life Books, Growth, New York: Life Science Library, 1965, p.

When is the brain functioning?

Brain waves have been recorded at 40 days on the Electroencephalogram (EEG). H. Hamlin, "Life or Death by EEG," JAMA, Oct. 12, 1964, p. 120

Brain function, as measured on the Electroencephalogram, "appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks gestation," or six weeks after conception. J. Goldenring, "Development of the Fetal Brain," New England Jour. of Med., Aug. 26, 1982, p. 564

Source for this and the post before it.

foundit66At this point, foundit, the mother-to-be isn't even aware that she is pregnant.

See post 2 up --the one with large red letters.

Date? 1965! ???
18 days this is all supposedly happening? Who wrote this crap?

I've been to MULTIPLE web-sites and NONE of them have a fetal heart-beat before week 3.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002398.htm
"Weeks 4 to 5"

http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/f...velopment1.php
Week 5: "First heartbeats begin"

http://www.wprc.org/fetal.phtml
Week 6: "A primitive heart is beating"


Quit quoting antiquated crap that is clearly inaccurate.

Quit saying murdering human being is not murder. It really does not matter if it is 1 second old. It is human. Why don't you just admit that you are for murdering human beings who can't defend themselves. What a big man you are. Go on admit it. Admit it this very minute.

You are so irrelevant.
Tell me HOW can I murder something THAT YOU ADMIT IS NOT ALIVE???

You want to talk about being a man?
Stop running from that question and ADDRESS it.

This "40 days" crap is an oft-repeated lie by anti-abortionists/pro-lifers who quote NOT peer-reviewed science, but rather refuted claims...


Sykes digs through the generations of pamphlets citing other pamphlets to find the original science on which the factoid is based, and comes up with a cite from a 1964 AMA convention speech transcript (not a research paper at all) published in the JAMA arguing for brain function rather than heart function to determine cessation of life, and a 1982 letter (not a peer-reviewed paper) published in the NEJM. As Sykes says, "no original research is being described here, which makes it dishonest and misleading to quote it as the source of a claim".

The quotes used by 'pro-lifers', when laid out in formal cite form, certainly do look impressive to anyone not in the habit or reading the original paper to evaluate a scientist's conclusions:


At only 40 days after fertilization electrical waves as measured by the EEG can be recorded from the baby's brain, indicating brain functioning47, 48.
47. Hamlin, H. (1964), "Life or Death by EEG," Journal of the American Medical Association, October 12, 113.




Brain function, as measured on the Electroencephalogram, "appears to be reliably present in the fetus at about eight weeks gestation," or six weeks after conception.

J. Goldenring, "Development of the Fetal Brain," New England Jour. of Med., Aug. 26, 1982, p. 564
Sykes dissects the misuse of these citations (both should strictly mention the status as convention proceedings/letters rather than research papers), showing that both of these opinion pieces incorrectly summarise science that is now either discredited or obsolete (and always refers to "electrical activity" rather than "brain waves"), then goes on to detail what medical science actually does show about the development of a functioning human brain:


When people, including physicians, talk about "brain waves" and "brain activity" they are referring to organized activity in the cortex. While no embryo or fetus has ever been found to have "brain waves," extensive EEG studies have been done on premature babies. A very good summary of their findings can be found in Pain and its effects in the human neonate and fetus," a review article (often cited by "pro-lifers" writing about fetal pain, but not about brain development) by K.J.S. Anand, a leading researcher on pain in newborns, and P.R. Hickey, published in NEJM:

"Functional maturity of the cerebral cortex is suggested by fetal and neonatal electroencephalographic patterns...First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks."
http://tigtogblog.blogspot.com/2006/...myths-and.html