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Murder Twice?!

Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 02-23-2007, 08:53 AM   #181 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady View Post
Preacherman....

Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life.' " 5 In the case of a "feet-first" delivery, it happens when most of the fetal body is outside the mother's body.
Jewish beliefs and practice not neatly match either the "pro-life" nor the "pro-choice" points of view. The general principles of modern-day Judaism are that:

The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains "full human status at birth only." 2


Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus.


Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health.


With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women.


"...each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law." 5



In additon:

Abortion-related passages in the Hebrew Scriptures & Talmud:

The Babylonian Talmud Yevamot 69b states that: "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day." Afterwards, it is considered subhuman until it is born.
"Rashi, the great 12th century commentator on the Bible and Talmud, states clearly of the fetus 'lav nefesh hu--it is not a person.' The Talmud contains the expression 'ubar yerech imo--the fetus is as the thigh of its mother,' i.e., the fetus is deemed to be part and parcel of the pregnant woman's body." 1This is grounded in Exodus 21:22. That biblical passage outlines the Mosaic law in a case where a man is responsible for causing a woman's miscarriage, which kills the fetus If the woman survives, then the perpetrator has to pay a fine to the woman's husband. If the woman dies, then the perpetrator is also killed. This indicates that the fetus has value, but does not have the status of a person.
There are two additional passages in the Talmud which shed some light on the Jewish belief about abortion. They imply that the fetus is considered part of the mother, and not a separate entity:

One section states that if a man purchases a cow that is found to be pregnant, then he is the owner both of the cow and the fetus.


Another section states that if a pregnant woman converts to Judaism, that her conversion applies also to her fetus.



Jewish beliefs about abortion

To be honest, this really doesnt surprise me. They have denied there God, and there own scriptures, all through history. It is a mistake to think they accualy listen to there own prophets.

This one time I was arguing with this cat about who the messiah was to the Jews. The only knowledge I had first hand was the Tora, where it clearly says he will be God in the flesh. Striaght calls him "the almighty God" Come to find out, they dont even believe that.
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:56 AM   #182 (permalink)
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LOL
so you're dissing the Jews today?
LOL
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:57 AM   #183 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacherman View Post
To be honest, this really doesnt surprise me. They have denied there God, and there own scriptures, all through history. It is a mistake to think they accualy listen to there own prophets.
Neither the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) nor the Christian Scriptures address abortion directly. However, writings in the early Christian movement by the end of the 1st century or the beginning of the 2nd century CE do condemn abortion.
Hebrew Scriptures: Exodus 21:22 is a key passage. As translated in the New International Version, this verse implies that the fetus is a human person. However, the most common interpretation of this same verse, as seen in other translations, implies that the fetus is not a human being. Other passages in the Hebrew Scriptures tend to devalue the fetus.Christian Scriptures: Luke 1:41 might be interpreted to condemn abortions after fetal viability.
The Hebrew and Christian Scriptures (Old and New Testament) use the same word to refer to an unborn fetus, newborn or older child. This is a limitation of the Hebrew and Greek languages. It might be interpreted as implying that:
Both ancient Hebrews and Pagan Greeks considered that the fetus is fully human, equivalent to a newborn child...orThey simply called both children and potential children by the same term, much as modern-day parents-to-be refer to a fetus as a baby.
A case can be made that the 99% of all abortions (those which are performed prior to viability of the fetus) do not appear to be prohibited by Bible passages, as translated by most versions of the Bible.
Old 02-23-2007, 08:58 AM   #184 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacherman View Post
It goes back to the whole free will thing. Plus, these conversations talk alot about death. But no one really dies, we are all eternal. So God doesnt see it the way we do. To us, its all about the innocent dieing (and from our view, we are right) to God, its all about the murderer in question. And how he will deal with them. He basicaly says its better to tie a rock to your neck and cast your self in the sea, then to hurt/kill one of the children. Considering he says he knew us before we even got to the womb, he surly considers any stage of abortion to be murder.
Are you a real preacher ?
it's been say we have the freedom of choice in gods eyes, well i believe that, but i don't believe in a hell, and i don't believe god will harm us , just because we make a few errors, also in my mind, if god wanted to stop all this USELESS killing he would, or is he trying to teach us something.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL THAT DEFENDS HER..
Old 02-23-2007, 09:06 AM   #185 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
LOL
so you're dissing the Jews today?
LOL

Na, Im done. "He who blesses Israel will be blessed, and those who curse her will be cursed"

Some times I forget where I came from.
Old 02-23-2007, 09:07 AM   #186 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by America first View Post
Are you a real preacher ?
it's been say we have the freedom of choice in gods eyes, well i believe that, but i don't believe in a hell, and i don't believe god will harm us , just because we make a few errors, also in my mind, if god wanted to stop all this USELESS killing he would, or is he trying to teach us something.

No, Im not a preacher. You believe what ever you want to brother/sister. But on that day, dont say you werent told.
Old 02-23-2007, 09:09 AM   #187 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady View Post
Neither the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) nor the Christian Scriptures address abortion directly. However, writings in the early Christian movement by the end of the 1st century or the beginning of the 2nd century CE do condemn abortion.
Hebrew Scriptures: Exodus 21:22 is a key passage. As translated in the New International Version, this verse implies that the fetus is a human person. However, the most common interpretation of this same verse, as seen in other translations, implies that the fetus is not a human being. Other passages in the Hebrew Scriptures tend to devalue the fetus.Christian Scriptures: Luke 1:41 might be interpreted to condemn abortions after fetal viability.
The Hebrew and Christian Scriptures (Old and New Testament) use the same word to refer to an unborn fetus, newborn or older child. This is a limitation of the Hebrew and Greek languages. It might be interpreted as implying that:
Both ancient Hebrews and Pagan Greeks considered that the fetus is fully human, equivalent to a newborn child...orThey simply called both children and potential children by the same term, much as modern-day parents-to-be refer to a fetus as a baby.
A case can be made that the 99% of all abortions (those which are performed prior to viability of the fetus) do not appear to be prohibited by Bible passages, as translated by most versions of the Bible.


God says he knew us BEFORE we even got to the womb. That says all I need to hear.
Old 02-23-2007, 09:15 AM   #188 (permalink)
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There's a quality, unbiased site...
Old 02-23-2007, 09:15 AM   #189 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacherman View Post
No, Im not a preacher. You believe what ever you want to brother/sister. But on that day, dont say you werent told.
Chill out man I was just asking, it wasn't a put down.ok

But I can say i wasn't told by god, yet. and i believe in him.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL THAT DEFENDS HER..
Old 02-23-2007, 09:24 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by America first View Post
Chill out man I was just asking, it wasn't a put down.ok

But I can say i wasn't told by god, yet. and i believe in him.

I didnt think you were putting me down. Sorry if I came across that way. I dont know if this will mean anything to you, but the bible says God has revealed himself to us in many ways, and on that day, we will be without excuse. But if you dont believe in the bible, I can see your point of view. I may not agree with it, but I see it.
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