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Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 08-03-2005, 10:01 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
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Originally Posted by hevusa
That wouldn't work in court and it doesn't work here. If our Constitution truly addressed the rights of a fetus it wouldn't be vague about the matter. You are grasping for something that isn't there.
Really, then explain how the right of privacy can be found in the pneumbras of the Constitution. By your very argument, the so-called right of privacy does not exist, that being the case, the right to choice is also null and void, and this debate would not be occuring. We can find the liberal rights in the pneumbras, but when a conservative uses the same pneumbras we are being vague and grasping at something that isn't there, talk about hypocrisy. This just goes to prove the point, if its not there, its not there and henceforth does not exist.

dmk
Now you are not even trying to make sense. You can't hide facts with fancy words and psuedo logic. What the hell does privacy have to do with abortion?
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Old 08-03-2005, 10:25 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
That wouldn't work in court and it doesn't work here. If our Constitution truly addressed the rights of a fetus it wouldn't be vague about the matter. You are grasping for something that isn't there.
Really, then explain how the right of privacy can be found in the pneumbras of the Constitution. By your very argument, the so-called right of privacy does not exist, that being the case, the right to choice is also null and void, and this debate would not be occuring. We can find the liberal rights in the pneumbras, but when a conservative uses the same pneumbras we are being vague and grasping at something that isn't there, talk about hypocrisy. This just goes to prove the point, if its not there, its not there and henceforth does not exist.

dmk
You want to talk about their rights vs. your beliefs?

You're forgetting that abortion isn't about you and your beliefs as a conservative. Let me ask you this- what do privacy and choice mean to you? I'm sure they mean a hell-of-a-lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic.

You want to talk about hypocrisy?

You're fighting for the rights of a human fetus; how can you sympathize with something that isn't even a fully-developed life form and support the termination of mature life on a mass scale?
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
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Old 08-03-2005, 10:30 PM   #43 (permalink)
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If conservatives care so much about fetuses, why don't the conservative women volunteer to bring these infants to term?
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Old 08-04-2005, 07:58 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Wow, I really thought you were smarter than that. I have given you way too much credit on this argument.

Your argument IS a bad one, not because I don't like it, but because it has little to no relevance to my argument. It is NOT the logical evolution of my argument. You see my argument is based on the idea that the individual mother has the right to chose what she allows to happen to her own body. We as a society do not have the right to kill people who are a drain, that's just wrong, because those people have rights themselves. I am arguing that a fetus, is not a person and has no rights. In my opinion until you have emerged from the womb, you have no rights that your mother does not grant you. Period.
Your very own words were "a human that is a parasytic organism in another human's body." Those were your words, so tell me again how my argument has little relevance to yours. You opened yourself up for my argument by saying a human that is a parasitic organism. You say that we as a people do not have a right to kill people who are a drain because they have rights themselves. Now you are tempering your argument by claiming that until you emerge from the womb you do not have these rights. You are the one who changed in mid-argument your clarification, if you meant to talk about a fetus, you should have used that word, but you used the word human. Therefore, it is your argument that was bad, and again you only dislike it now because I was able to use your own logical against you.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
Old 08-04-2005, 08:03 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
I'm not sure why you switched the argument to the right of privacy, but I have a few theories.

The right for a woman to choose what to do with her body isn't going anywhere in this country, no matter how much Christians whine about it, or how much you try to twist the constitution.
To quote the words of Justice Blackmon, who wrote the majority opinion in Roe v. Wade, "The shoulders of privacy are large enough to support a woman's right to choose."

That is where my argument for privacy comes into the equation. The right to choose is based upon the premise of privacy, establishe in Griswald v Connecticutt, using the so-called pneumbras of the Constitution. Once again, such hypocrisy on your part!!!!! If you don't know the history how do you really expect to win?????

I was not the one who twisted the Constitution, but since it has been twisted, I utilized an argument based on my belief, and you don't like it, but once again it is only hypocrisy on your part, I beat you at your own game.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
Old 08-04-2005, 08:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
You want to talk about their rights vs. your beliefs?

You're forgetting that abortion isn't about you and your beliefs as a conservative. Let me ask you this- what do privacy and choice mean to you? I'm sure they mean a hell-of-a-lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic.

You want to talk about hypocrisy?

You're fighting for the rights of a human fetus; how can you sympathize with something that isn't even a fully-developed life form and support the termination of mature life on a mass scale?
Privacy and choice mean a whole lot to mean. I believe that I should be safe and secure in my home or on my property. I believe that I should have the choice to decide where I will send my children to school, or what job to take, or so forth. And I agree with you whole heartedly that they mean a lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic. However, there is no hypocrisy in what I said. I have plainly stated that I am anti-abortion, not pro-life.

How can I sympathize with something that isn't fully developed yet, mainly because I work in the healthcare field, and because I was a soldier. I was taught that it is a duty of all to fight for those who do not have the ability to fight for themselves.

Because I am a conservative I believe in the checks and balances of this country and our Constitution. In this decision, I believe that the Court has stepped over its limited duties. The decision of abortion should not be made by nine in robes, but rather by the people of the states. You claim that as a conservative I would do away with abortion, that is not my goal. My goal is for the decision of abortion to be decided upon by the people, as the Tenth Amendment demands. You have the nerve in other forums to talk about the will of the people, well let's see how much you like it.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
Old 08-04-2005, 08:47 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
You want to talk about their rights vs. your beliefs?

You're forgetting that abortion isn't about you and your beliefs as a conservative. Let me ask you this- what do privacy and choice mean to you? I'm sure they mean a hell-of-a-lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic.

You want to talk about hypocrisy?

You're fighting for the rights of a human fetus; how can you sympathize with something that isn't even a fully-developed life form and support the termination of mature life on a mass scale?
Privacy and choice mean a whole lot to mean. I believe that I should be safe and secure in my home or on my property. I believe that I should have the choice to decide where I will send my children to school, or what job to take, or so forth. And I agree with you whole heartedly that they mean a lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic. However, there is no hypocrisy in what I said. I have plainly stated that I am anti-abortion, not pro-life.

How can I sympathize with something that isn't fully developed yet, mainly because I work in the healthcare field, and because I was a soldier. I was taught that it is a duty of all to fight for those who do not have the ability to fight for themselves.

Because I am a conservative I believe in the checks and balances of this country and our Constitution. In this decision, I believe that the Court has stepped over its limited duties. The decision of abortion should not be made by nine in robes, but rather by the people of the states. You claim that as a conservative I would do away with abortion, that is not my goal. My goal is for the decision of abortion to be decided upon by the people, as the Tenth Amendment demands. You have the nerve in other forums to talk about the will of the people, well let's see how much you like it.

dmk

Why not take it a step farther and just declare everything inbetween the coasts Jesusland and be done with it.
Old 08-04-2005, 09:11 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Wow, I really thought you were smarter than that. I have given you way too much credit on this argument.

Your argument IS a bad one, not because I don't like it, but because it has little to no relevance to my argument. It is NOT the logical evolution of my argument. You see my argument is based on the idea that the individual mother has the right to chose what she allows to happen to her own body. We as a society do not have the right to kill people who are a drain, that's just wrong, because those people have rights themselves. I am arguing that a fetus, is not a person and has no rights. In my opinion until you have emerged from the womb, you have no rights that your mother does not grant you. Period.
Your very own words were "a human that is a parasytic organism in another human's body." Those were your words, so tell me again how my argument has little relevance to yours. You opened yourself up for my argument by saying a human that is a parasitic organism. You say that we as a people do not have a right to kill people who are a drain because they have rights themselves. Now you are tempering your argument by claiming that until you emerge from the womb you do not have these rights. You are the one who changed in mid-argument your clarification, if you meant to talk about a fetus, you should have used that word, but you used the word human. Therefore, it is your argument that was bad, and again you only dislike it now because I was able to use your own logical against you.

dmk
I did NOT say Human, I said infant. And I should not have said that. The fact is that anything existing inside a woman has no rights that she does not grant it. It is her choice, that is something we can not regulate.
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Old 08-04-2005, 09:28 PM   #49 (permalink)
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i agree with tadpole on this one, it is definetly the womans choice.
-- San Fernando Valley's where it's at
Old 08-04-2005, 09:36 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
You want to talk about their rights vs. your beliefs?

You're forgetting that abortion isn't about you and your beliefs as a conservative. Let me ask you this- what do privacy and choice mean to you? I'm sure they mean a hell-of-a-lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic.

You want to talk about hypocrisy?

You're fighting for the rights of a human fetus; how can you sympathize with something that isn't even a fully-developed life form and support the termination of mature life on a mass scale?
Privacy and choice mean a whole lot to mean. I believe that I should be safe and secure in my home or on my property. I believe that I should have the choice to decide where I will send my children to school, or what job to take, or so forth. And I agree with you whole heartedly that they mean a lot more to a young woman entering an abortion clinic. However, there is no hypocrisy in what I said. I have plainly stated that I am anti-abortion, not pro-life.

How can I sympathize with something that isn't fully developed yet, mainly because I work in the healthcare field, and because I was a soldier. I was taught that it is a duty of all to fight for those who do not have the ability to fight for themselves.

Because I am a conservative I believe in the checks and balances of this country and our Constitution. In this decision, I believe that the Court has stepped over its limited duties. The decision of abortion should not be made by nine in robes, but rather by the people of the states. You claim that as a conservative I would do away with abortion, that is not my goal. My goal is for the decision of abortion to be decided upon by the people, as the Tenth Amendment demands. You have the nerve in other forums to talk about the will of the people, well let's see how much you like it.

dmk
Well the will of the people is to let women have the right to choose!

Further more, by your logic, you should NOT be in any healthcare field, you should be preventing people from getting vaccinations, I mean you have to defend that life which can not defend itself right? Well who is looking out for the Flu? The flu is caused by living organisms, inside people's bodies, but it is okay to kill it... Why not a fetus? I see no difference.

You are very smart, and apparently well educated or at least willing to do your research, and I commend that, but you are not very good at forming any kind of an effective argument that is not easily countered.
Fight the good fight, and die with the enemy's heart in your hand.

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