Keep telling yourself that, but you know my argument that has been explained to you time and time again is untouched by you. You seem to agree that a person cannot choose their beliefs based on will alone since you have not provided one argument against it.

I don't know what the big deal is. Some people decide what they will believe...whether it's truth or not. There are many, many people who believe lies mainly because they want to believe them.

There is truth and then there is not truth. Where am I going with this? There are many sources that claim they possess the truth. But yet we have 7 major religions in the world, and among the "Christian" religion there must be at least 2000 divisions. Yet there is only one that is true. So how does one decide which is the true one? Ah! there's the catch!! Most people decide which they will believe even though what they've chosen is still false. BUT they have decided that the way they've chosen is the true way (even though it isn't).

Our encyclopedias are usually counted on to be true, yet how many of those can you find in Thrift Shops outdated with no buyers? Plenty of those! Even our dictionaries are changing and some even disagree with one another.

Life can be confusing to say the least. But there is still only ONE true way to follow. So, how can we know for sure we are following the truth? What plumb line do we use? Whose truth do you employ? What is your source for truth? Eveyone born has opinions, but are their opinions true? How can we know? Is there a source that has proven to be true that we can trust to measure our beliefs against? I believe there is.

1. I have never known anyone who has chosen to believe something they know to be a lie. People may act like they believe something that they know is a lie for whatever reason, but they are only pretending.

2. Who says any of the major religions are true? Further, in my own experience when I had faith, that was not a choice. I just believed in God. Now that I don't believe in God, that was not a choice either. In my opinion, being an atheist is not a choice, it is just a description my lack of faith. I cannot will my faith back any more than a bald man can will his hair back.

3. Sure there are lots of old encyclopedias in thrift stores that no one will buy, but I have never heard anyone claim that an encyclopedia was the end all be all authority on anything. It is only a collection of what information we have on a topic during a given time. On the other hand, I see far more bibles in thrift stores with no buyers and that does claim to be a universal truth that cannot be updated.

4. The claim that there is only one true way to follow is only a claim. There is no reason it is logically impossible for there to be several paths to truth.

The bottom line is you have made a good case that there is so many different types of beliefs that it is hard to know exactly which is the right way. I am always skeptical of anyone who claims that they have the one true way. Even within Christianity there are so many major differences in theology that it is a tad arrogant to claim that 99.99% of humanity or more has got it wrong and you got it right, especially when there is no objective way to prove that claim.

Okay. I'll concede they don't willingly believe something they know absolutely is a lie. I guess what I'm thinking of is someone deciding to embrace a particular belief (or religion) because they think it's "neat" or other reasons. Or perhaps someone in denial. Maybe not. What do you think?

Your analogy suggests that (like the bald man would like to have his hair back) that you, too, desire to have your faith back. Perhaps you haven't searched for the treasure hard enough? If it were a gold mine, would you have given up so quickly? Sometimes one might be headed in the wrong direction and then of course, you wouldn't find what you were looking for.

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field." Mt 13:44

Actually (as far as I know) it is the only book that claims to be the universal truth. Christ, too, is the only "leader" who said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father except by Me." I don't believe the others claimed to be the Son of God, did they? You'll have to fill me in because I honestly don't know.

I gave the analogy of enclopedias because the salesperson selling them usually gives the pitch, "Everything your child needs to get ahead is in these books." Other sources are Ann Landers, Dr. Laura, horoscopes, certain books by certain authors, etc. Or like people who believe only in science.

Would you concede that anything "spiritual" is not logical?

If you know why there are so many major differences within Christianity, it's easier to comprehend.

As for your statement "it is a tad arrogant to claim that 99.99% of humanity has it wrong", hear what Christ said:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many (those 99.99%) who go in by it. Mt 7:13

The true way is the narrow road that few are traveling. Which reminds me of one of my favorite aphorisms: "Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it; and right is right even if no one is doing it", which is to say the majority doesn't always have it right.

I apologize for the derail.

1. Cheers. That is all I was ever trying to say. Some people may choose to study a religion or choose to be close minded towards it, but that does not mean they take it to be true or they reject it as truth. In my personal experience, belief is something that can be obtained through knowledge. When I was a Christian, I studied it as deeply as I could and had a particular liking of apologetics. But over time, I broadened my study and found things that shook my faith. The more I studied the less Christianity made sense to me. This bothered me greatly and I spent over a year praying and asking God to help me while seeking the council of Christian friends and leaders but never had my faith return. One day I realized I did not have faith anymore and was faced with a choice: I could either not believe in Christianity and lie about it, giving God lip service, or I could not believe in Christianity and be honest about it. But I did not see simply choosing to have faith as an option.

2. Sure, I it would be nice to believe that there was an all powerful God who loved me and would protect me, but I don't. I would not go so far as to say that I have given up... as my faith one day disappeared it could come back stronger that ever. I am not close minded toward religion, just from where I am sitting right now I do not currently believe in it.

3. I am not sure on that either way, but I know a couple of Muslims who think the Koran is the only true source of truth. But I don't know of a specific claim of such in the Koran, so that could well be their opinion.

4. I see what you mean, but am not much persuaded by it.

5. I would not agree. The bible makes logical proofs quite often. For example: If God is for us, then no one can be against us. This is formal deduction on a basic level. But I will agree that there is always some kind of unprovable faith. But even if you are correct and logic plays no role in spiritual matters, it is not my fault that (assuming the Christian God is real) God made me in such a way that logic would be more persuasive that just believing and it would be terribly unjust to punish me for using the brain I was given and coming to the most honest conclusions that I can.

6. I have taken several church history classes and probably have a better than average knowledge on the subject.

7. It is true that Christ said that, but not everyone who is honestly trying to follow Christ are correct. More specifically, there is no way to know if we are following Christ in the way that he intended.

We??????????? Totals for all the American soldiers killed since 1900 to 2005. What about other Human beings killed around the world behind U.S. involvement?

Redrum!

Janet "WACO" Reno

Enlightenment - The Experience Festival

intangible child: You mean like Hitler's 6 million? or were you referring to Stalin's 20 million? Perhaps you referred to Mao's 77 million murders.

Could you be more specific, please? The only time the U.S. goes to war is to help other people under oppressive governments...such as South Korea in 1951. Or an attack on our soil, such as the bombing of Pearl Harbor, 1941. If provoked, yes, we will go to war.

Are you sorry that Saddam Hussein was stopped from murdering his own people? or the Kurds? Or do those people not matter to you?

I can't decide if you are against Janet Reno and for "Enlightenment". Please enlighten me.

Do you know how many have lived AND suffered? Curious.....