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Abortion How do you feel about abortion? Are you pro-choice or pro-life? Defend your views on abortion in this forum.

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Old 02-06-2007, 11:27 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OhDear View Post

Preacher, I fail to see how these days are any different or certainly any worse than the days of old as recorded in the Scripture with these occurences, some mandated or credited to God Himself:


Abortion:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

Infanticide:
1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

The murdering of children:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
*Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.
Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?
Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.
2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.
Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”
1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.
I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.
Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.
Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.
Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.
Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children

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OD


These scriptures are quoted often by anti-God people...atheists, if you will. And it only proves their lack of acquaintance with Him. These arguments simply exemplify the lengths people will go to justify their sins and to point an accusing finger any direction than toward themselves.

But instead of going into the arguments of "why" God did/ordered these things, I'd like to ask a simple question.

"Why do you believe a woman has "rights to her body" but don't believe the Creator of the Universe has rights to His creation/creatures?

Say you created a sculpture and decided later it didn't meet your standard of sculptures, would you have a right to destroy it? What if someone criticized you for destroying your "creation"? Would they have the right to say that you were wrong for destroying your own creation?

A woman doesn't have a right to kill her unborn anymore than she has the right to take the life of her 2-year old or even her own life because it is NOT her creation. She AND her unborn child are creations of God. Her life and her child is a gift from God. If she doesn't want the gift, she has the right to give it away, but she does not have the right to kill it. Man's law says she does, but man's law is WRONG. That's what's wrong with the world, by the way. We discarded God's laws and replaced them with our own. We've dethroned Him and set ourselves on the throne..in effect, made ourselves our own God. Do we have the power to save our lives?

When you have the wild thought that God could be wrong or made a mistake, just remember, HE is the Creator and you are His creation. Think "Potter" and "clay".

*The daughter of Jephthah - It is really astonishing, that the general stream of commentators, should take it for granted, that Jephthah murdered his daughter! But, says Mr. Henry, "We do not find any law, usage or custom, in all the Old Testament, which doth in the least intimate, that a single life was any branch or article of religion." And do we find any law, usage or custom there, which doth in the least intimate, that cutting the throat of an only child, was any branch or article of religion? If only a dog had met Jephthah, would he have offered up that for a burnt - offering? No: because God had expressly forbidden this. And had he not expressly forbidden murder? But Mr. Poole thinks the story of Agamemnon's offering up Iphigenia took its rise from this. Probably it did. But then let it be observed, Iphigenia was not murdered. Tradition said, that Diana sent an hind in her stead, and took the maid to live in the woods with her. Source

I think its safe to say that interpretations of the Bible should be left to those who are learned AND acquainted with its Author, not fools who say in their heart, "There is no God".

NOW...why are we discussing the "evils of God" when the thread is about a truly evil man who kills babies every day in the womb and out? I believe the thread's topic is about people who are breaking man's law, namely George Tiller. I have to wonder about your inability to see the evil in George Tiller, but (think you) clearly perceive God's evil. "George isn't evil because he operates in 'man's law' ".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." This includes the unborn AND disabled.
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:33 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Oh Dear said: "Jesus never even called the woman caught in adultery a sinner. He only said, 'I don't condemn ya...go and sin no more.' "

So, do you believe it's okay to commit adultery, now? Or just that He forgave her with an admonition not to do it, again?

If Jesus hadn't "judged" her, why would He say He didn't condemn her? Even to say that, He had to judge her. Otherwise, there would be nothing to say, would there?
Old 02-06-2007, 12:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Oh Dear said: "Jesus never even called the woman caught in adultery a sinner. He only said, 'I don't condemn ya...go and sin no more.' "

So, do you believe it's okay to commit adultery, now? Or just that He forgave her with an admonition not to do it, again?

If Jesus hadn't "judged" her, why would He say He didn't condemn her? Even to say that, He had to judge her. Otherwise, there would be nothing to say, would there?
Do I believe its okay to commit adultery? With the revelation of salvation, man can begin to live out not his own life, but the life of Christ. Life lived with the fullness of God.
But that life doesn't get lived so very much at all wondering where anyone stands with Him, even wondering where I stand with him.

Look at Him...holiness is not a personal achievement. What you or I or anyone else okays is of no value when you look at Him.

When I look at Jesus, I see a man that said he did not come to judge the world but to save it. I see a man that had the greatest love in that he laid down his life for his friends.

I hear a message spoken regarding the Law: Love God with all you are, all you got and love everyone else as much as you love yourself.

Can anyone commit adultery and be resonating that message?

There is something better than looking at what not to do, and that is to be looking at the one who has done all things impeccably.

OD
Old 02-06-2007, 01:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
These scriptures are quoted often by anti-God people...atheists, if you will. And it only proves their lack of acquaintance with Him. These arguments simply exemplify the lengths people will go to justify their sins and to point an accusing finger any direction than toward themselves.

But instead of going into the arguments of "why" God did/ordered these things, I'd like to ask a simple question.

"Why do you believe a woman has "rights to her body" but don't believe the Creator of the Universe has rights to His creation/creatures?

Say you created a sculpture and decided later it didn't meet your standard of sculptures, would you have a right to destroy it? What if someone criticized you for destroying your "creation"? Would they have the right to say that you were wrong for destroying your own creation?

A woman doesn't have a right to kill her unborn anymore than she has the right to take the life of her 2-year old or even her own life because it is NOT her creation. She AND her unborn child are creations of God. Her life and her child is a gift from God. If she doesn't want the gift, she has the right to give it away, but she does not have the right to kill it. Man's law says she does, but man's law is WRONG. That's what's wrong with the world, by the way. We discarded God's laws and replaced them with our own. We've dethroned Him and set ourselves on the throne..in effect, made ourselves our own God. Do we have the power to save our lives?

When you have the wild thought that God could be wrong or made a mistake, just remember, HE is the Creator and you are His creation. Think "Potter" and "clay".

*The daughter of Jephthah - It is really astonishing, that the general stream of commentators, should take it for granted, that Jephthah murdered his daughter! But, says Mr. Henry, "We do not find any law, usage or custom, in all the Old Testament, which doth in the least intimate, that a single life was any branch or article of religion." And do we find any law, usage or custom there, which doth in the least intimate, that cutting the throat of an only child, was any branch or article of religion? If only a dog had met Jephthah, would he have offered up that for a burnt - offering? No: because God had expressly forbidden this. And had he not expressly forbidden murder? But Mr. Poole thinks the story of Agamemnon's offering up Iphigenia took its rise from this. Probably it did. But then let it be observed, Iphigenia was not murdered. Tradition said, that Diana sent an hind in her stead, and took the maid to live in the woods with her. Source

I think its safe to say that interpretations of the Bible should be left to those who are learned AND acquainted with its Author, not fools who say in their heart, "There is no God".

NOW...why are we discussing the "evils of God" when the thread is about a truly evil man who kills babies every day in the womb and out? I believe the thread's topic is about people who are breaking man's law, namely George Tiller. I have to wonder about your inability to see the evil in George Tiller, but (think you) clearly perceive God's evil. "George isn't evil because he operates in 'man's law' ".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." This includes the unborn AND disabled.


WOW, great post brother.
Old 02-06-2007, 01:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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WOW, great post brother.
Hunker down, you two...

OD

P.S. I am gonna take a wild guess that Observer is female like me...I would not post my gender either, but with my picture showing I have long hair, I would be so offended if someone thought I was some hippie guy!
Old 02-06-2007, 01:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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harrumph

and what's wrong wrong with long hair hippie guys?

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Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 02-06-2007, 01:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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harrumph

and what's wrong wrong with long hair hippie guys?

Absolutely nothing Tristan...except I am woman and want to be thought of as one. And I am afraid if I did not have my gender revealed but had my picture up, someone might mistake me for a boy.


OD
Old 02-06-2007, 01:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hunker down, you two...

OD

P.S. I am gonna take a wild guess that Observer is female like me...I would not post my gender either, but with my picture showing I have long hair, I would be so offended if someone thought I was some hippie guy!

That could very well be, but if I was a bettin man, I'd put my money on male. Brother, Sister, either way, it was a great post.
Old 02-06-2007, 04:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The problem with the bible is people take it as fact or the true word of God. No one can know this with any amount of certainly (remember, that is why faith is required and not something else with more weight in the real world).

The same people that don't trust modern day news are often the same people that are willing to base their whole spiritual and moral lives around something that was written by man a very long time ago (when the world was a very different place).
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.

Last edited by hevusa; 02-06-2007 at 04:16 PM.
Old 02-06-2007, 04:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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That could very well be, but if I was a bettin man, I'd put my money on male. Brother, Sister, either way, it was a great post.
Thanks for the compliment, Preacherman. It's appreciated. Check out your private messages.
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