That's where I will have to disagree...

being from the "hood" and all you would

What you're forgetting is that kids raised in poorer areas have a whole different outlook on life. They're not encouraged by their parents, their teachers, their peers, that they can make it. I think many of them believe their pretty much doomed.

Take a walk in the ghetto sometime. You'll see there's more liquor stores and police stations than bookstores and daycare centers. I'm sure you'd feel pretty antagonized and doomed if you lived/grew up in an area like that.

I don't think very many of them have the patience to do well in school and earn enough money to get out of there, and with such a high concentration of drugs in the area, it's a lot easier to slam heroin and get away from it all than find the self-determination to "succeed".

Its not just that they aren't encouraged, its just that they actually don't have a chance, or at least much of a chance. The American Dream is an illusion and misleading. Its just simply not possible for anyone and everyone to bring themselves up out of poverty and into rich prosperity. "The American Dream" does not include over half of what decides success. It doesn't include nationality, family, language, race, social class one is already born into, but mostly luck. The idea that just anyone can succeed in this country based soley on hard work and determination is just rediculous.

If it were true, there simply wouldn't be such a class division. There wouldn't be anywhere near as many homeless and those below poverty. The "American Dream" creates the illusion that all poor are just lazy and stupid. When actually the good majority of the working class American citizens are hard working and determined. The ones that say that anyone can achieve success are those born into richer households, and into rich families, and usually always by people that haven't been in that kind of situation.

That is one of the main faults of the Republican Party. Is that they seriously think any poor individual can just stand up, shake off poverty and live in a rich lifestyle. One of the biggest and most tragic examples of this was in New Orleans. Bush and his rich friends were stumped on why everyone in New Orleans didn't just 'hop in their hummers and drive to safety'. Seriously. "Oh its their choice to live in such poor neighborhoods!" Fuck you! Excuse my french but sometimes its needed. People can't just up and move out of their homes! People can't just move out of the ghetto and into a multi-hundred thousand dollar house in some rich suburb, send their kids to some rich private school, and send their kids to Ivy League. Get real!

Bush didn't start as a poor child and get into riches. He didn't get where he was through hard work and determination. He just happened to be born in a rich family, just happened to have a father that is president and can move him up in the ranks. Sure C students can be President, only when their father was one!

And then you indeed do have the major factor that they aren't encouraged. All of their surroundings are integrated into that particular social class. In other words, parents who are middle class and have been middle class all of their lives, aren't going to teach their kid how to be a billionare, and aren't going to teach them how to build an empire if they themselves have absolutely no means nor knowhow. As onlyoneplanet put it.

So in other words; its not that they aren't choosing the right choices to be rich, but rather they simply do not have the choices available to them to become rich.

Then of coarse you have to factor in that this country truly doesn't have competition in the market. The idea that anyone can start a business and be successful is rediculous. In this country, in certain enterprises more than others, the smaller businesses are being stomped out and the field is being dominated by the big elite. Either their bought out, denied success because of a monopoly (esspecially in computer sofware [Microsoft]), or as soon as you get your shop up Wal-Mart moves in, takes all the service, and you close down (as an example). Only like 1 out of like 12 businesses or some rediculous factor (can't remeber it exactly) actually stay up and succeed. And to think most of these are started by people that were provided with the right choices.

But what I'm saying is, if these people actually believed they could make it in America, then their chances are higher. Could they be capable of working hard & 'succeeding'? Certainly. Is this realistic? No, and for a number of reasons, including those that you mentioned dealing with race, class, even gender, and subfactors including education, sexuality/gender roles, religion, etc.

Being poor in America is as much psychological as it is financial, which makes plenty of sense when you think about it; the poor have attained a general 'poor' mentality so to speak, because of pressure put on them from the upper class.

This is where your point of the American Dream comes into play- it is indeed an illusion, and in a very literal sense. Some companies will spend millions just to find out what makes people tick; how to get them to buy things and give them the general idea that having their product will make them happy. And so, as a result of this bombardment of advertisements--these illusions of happiness--the American conscience focuses on material possessions, and subconsciously, we believe that this will make us happy and it does indeed keep us content. Consequently, the American middle class remains blissfully ignorant. And it's all a mind game.

So, since we're now living in a commodity-society, where the middle class is the majority, and having lots of useless stuff is the norm, a standard has been created for this "American Dream"- one in which the goal is basically to have a disposable income; where--if you're poor--you're basically seen as a lower being and like you said, Kat: lazy and stupid.

Unfortunately, this whole mentality created created by our alsmost zealous consumerism has contaminated our politics with it's ideals. And like you said, it generates little-or-no concern for the poor and the homeless, so we see them being brutalized by police, cheated in the courts, and waved off by the general public.

Yes, the working class is very hardworking and determined, but I'm specifically addressing the so-called 'ghetto' American youth- those who have been conditioned by society to disbelieve in themselves. Of course, it's silly to believe that all ghetto youth are like this, but their only choices when it comes to escaping that whole mess, aren't favorable. You're absolutely right when you say they have no shot at becoming rich- basically, they can choose to join the army, go to jail, or die in the street. Not much opportunity there if you ask me.

Sorry if I only repeated some of what you said, Kat, my main goal was to explain the pyschological factors of poverty, and the conditioned respose to the lower class by the middle/upper classes.

The American dream is very possible its that kind of mentality that the left sends to the lower class that makes it seem as if they are useless. My family is lower class so I took advantage of the fact that I don't want to work 11-14 hours per day like my dad so I worked my ass off in school and received a scholarship for college. I have to work, play basketball, and still concentrate on my work but it can be done.

The many customers and people I have met over my lifetime who have come here with barely any money in their pockets always laugh at how easy it is to be independent or start a family with hard work and dedication.

I think you guys do have a point that being born in the hood would make it more difficult to have the dedication to succeed because he/she is in a different society. Until a certain age, I feel that every human living in America does have the opportunity to change their role in a society. Do you agree??

I would rather blame the person who has chosen to ignore the dedication to find work and educate thy self.

RHS, if you lived in the hood for a week of your life I think you would have very different views about it.

I've seen pictures and videos of people living in the hood. I also saw some crazy gang fights from people living in the hood a couple years back and it's absolutely crazy! Again I feel that you do have your point and I feel that someone born into a society like that would most likely adopt the same traits as his peers.

How will affirmative action fix this??

AA will not fix this. We need a plan much greater & broader than AA to address poverty in America. Until then AA just gives them an open door where 10 others have been slammed in their face (metaphorically).