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Affirmative Action & Race Issues Do you feel that affirmative action should be expired, or do you feel that it should still be enforced? Defend your views on affirmative action in this forum.

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Old 08-24-2005, 07:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Affirmative Action -- vs Racial Preferences
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Originally Posted by Doug
I am a conservative, and I am firmly in favor of Affirmative Action. By Affirmative Action I mean

[1] Going after racial oppression -- illegal discrimination -- where ever it exists, using all the weapons at our disposal: legal and extra-legal, the same way we did in the 1960s. [I am a veteran of the Civil Rights movement in the South at that time.]

[2] Developing policies which will help disadvantaged people, of whatever color, to take advantage of all the wonderful opportunities available for personal advancement in America today. Although these policies should be color blind, they will obviously disproportionately benefit Black people.

This should include scholarships to universities, programs to supplement poor schools, programs to replace poor schools with good ones -- vouchers are the obvious answer but we can still fight for other programs where we are not yet able to get vouchers -- strong but fair policing, programs that will do away with demoralizing public housing projects and instead encourage home ownership, and so on.

This is what Affirmative Action should mean.

It should not mean racial quotas and racial preferences, which devalue the achievements of Black people.

We should not let the liberals and the Left capture the phrase "Affirmative Action", which in the eye of the public, now means "active measures against racial oppression".

Rather, we should give the phrase "Affirmative Action" its proper content -- action to break down the barriers to entry into society, which can and should be done on a color-blind basis.

Doug
Is this not what the Equal Opportunity currently does?? If so, then Affirmative Action is no longer needed. AA was devised to make up for the sins of the past (Slavery, Seperate but Equal, and Jim Crow laws). At what point are those sins absolved??? Or shall they remain a stain upon our country's conscience forever. If so, why is there no blame placed upon the African tribes who actually captured and sold other tribes into slavery, or upon the Middle East, who maintained slavery long after the western world began abolishing it.

We like to blame our country for the evils of the world, and for some things we are at fault. But slavery was an institution that existed before this nation, and continued to exist after the fall of the institution of this country. For all the blame the western world takes for the institution of slavery, little recognition is giving for its fight to abolish it. Britain at a cost to its own citizens actively patrolled the world's water, challenging slave traders, capturing their ships and releasing the slaves. Where is the demand for the reparations to the British government and people for their sacrifices. Or where is the cry for reparations for the Union soldiers who died during the civil war, and after the civil war under President Grant in taking on the KKK.

Affirmative action had its time and place, however, today, we seriously need to consider if we wish to continue judging people by the color of their skin, or should we finally embrace the dream of Martlin Luther King Jr, and judge people by the content of their character???


dmk
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Old 08-24-2005, 08:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Affirmative Action -- vs Racial Preferences
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Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Is this not what the Equal Opportunity currently does?? If so, then Affirmative Action is no longer needed. AA was devised to make up for the sins of the past (Slavery, Seperate but Equal, and Jim Crow laws). At what point are those sins absolved??? Or shall they remain a stain upon our country's conscience forever. If so, why is there no blame placed upon the African tribes who actually captured and sold other tribes into slavery, or upon the Middle East, who maintained slavery long after the western world began abolishing it.

We like to blame our country for the evils of the world, and for some things we are at fault. But slavery was an institution that existed before this nation, and continued to exist after the fall of the institution of this country. For all the blame the western world takes for the institution of slavery, little recognition is giving for its fight to abolish it. Britain at a cost to its own citizens actively patrolled the world's water, challenging slave traders, capturing their ships and releasing the slaves. Where is the demand for the reparations to the British government and people for their sacrifices. Or where is the cry for reparations for the Union soldiers who died during the civil war, and after the civil war under President Grant in taking on the KKK.

Affirmative action had its time and place, however, today, we seriously need to consider if we wish to continue judging people by the color of their skin, or should we finally embrace the dream of Martlin Luther King Jr, and judge people by the content of their character???


dmk
Well said sgt! The last paragraph was my favorite.
Old 08-25-2005, 02:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Affirmative Action -- vs Racial Preferences
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Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Is this not what the Equal Opportunity currently does?? If so, then Affirmative Action is no longer needed. AA was devised to make up for the sins of the past (Slavery, Seperate but Equal, and Jim Crow laws). At what point are those sins absolved??? Or shall they remain a stain upon our country's conscience forever. If so, why is there no blame placed upon the African tribes who actually captured and sold other tribes into slavery, or upon the Middle East, who maintained slavery long after the western world began abolishing it.

We like to blame our country for the evils of the world, and for some things we are at fault. But slavery was an institution that existed before this nation, and continued to exist after the fall of the institution of this country. For all the blame the western world takes for the institution of slavery, little recognition is giving for its fight to abolish it. Britain at a cost to its own citizens actively patrolled the world's water, challenging slave traders, capturing their ships and releasing the slaves. Where is the demand for the reparations to the British government and people for their sacrifices. Or where is the cry for reparations for the Union soldiers who died during the civil war, and after the civil war under President Grant in taking on the KKK.

Affirmative action had its time and place, however, today, we seriously need to consider if we wish to continue judging people by the color of their skin, or should we finally embrace the dream of Martlin Luther King Jr, and judge people by the content of their character???


dmk
Well said sgt! The last paragraph was my favorite.
Agreed.
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Old 05-11-2006, 06:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Affirmative action is descrimination. Two wrongs don't make a right. The most qualified person should get the job no matter of sex or race. Isn't that what we have those government posters for at every job site? When you favor one sex or race over another to make quotas, you are infringing on the rights of those who deserve the job. There is no affirmative action in professional sports. If you can do the job, they don't care if you are green or purple. To give someone a job over someone more qualified is racism no matter how you may spin it or sugar coat it. It's racism.
Old 05-11-2006, 06:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Affirmative action is descrimination.
No, AA is trying to bridge the gap CAUSED BY discrimination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Two wrongs don't make a right.
So how do you feel about capital punishment?
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So in your world 2 wrongs make a right? You have to be a liberal.

I am for capital punishment. I am also antiabortion. Let me save you the trouble. The reason abortion is murder and capital punishment is not is because the person who is found guility has made a choice to take a life. The innocent child has done nothing to deserve murder. Capital punishment is not murder no more than a soldier killed in a war is murdered. The criminal is receiving punishment for taking an innocent life.

Last edited by alias; 05-11-2006 at 09:25 PM.
Old 05-11-2006, 09:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
So in your world 2 wrongs make a right? You have to be a liberal.

I am for capital punishment. I am also antiabortion. Let me save you the trouble. The reason abortion is murder and capital punishment is not is because the person who is found guility has made a choice to take a life. The innocent child has done nothing to deserve murder. Capital punishment is not murder no more than a soldier killed in a war is murdered. The criminal is receiving punishment for taking an innocent life.
What we have just clarified is that you are for killing as long as you deem it morally justified.

Luckily in the case of a mother deciding over her own body she is completely justified. Unless of course you want people to decide what you do with your body.
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Old 05-11-2006, 11:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Moral justification has nothing to do with it. The criminal has deliberately taken a life and there is punishment for that.

It is not about a woman's body. The baby is not her body. The baby has a beating heart at 5 or 6 weeks with its own circulation system and blood type. That is not the mother's body. That is a separate human being. You can't spin that, but I know you will try.
Old 05-12-2006, 12:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Moral justification has nothing to do with it. The criminal has deliberately taken a life and there is punishment for that.
And that punishment you mention is execution, which you find morally justified since you support it. To kill is justified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
It is not about a woman's body. The baby is not her body. The baby has a beating heart at 5 or 6 weeks with its own circulation system and blood type. That is not the mother's body. That is a separate human being. You can't spin that, but I know you will try.
It most certainly is about her body. She is the host in fact. And what is the difference in this case??? Your morals have no jurisdiction over another human's body (fortunately).

Or what would be next, you dictating when it is ok for people to fornicate as well? Only for married folks?

And if you think abortion is murder, what about animals? Your morals probably dictate that it is ok to kill in this case as well, just like in the case of a convicted murderer.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 05-12-2006, 03:27 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
It is not about a woman's body. The baby is not her body. The baby has a beating heart at 5 or 6 weeks with its own circulation system and blood type. That is not the mother's body. That is a separate human being.
Excellent points, alias !
And the prenate also has its own DNA.

Hev, you like to use the word "host" for the mother; why are you trying to portray the prenate as being similar to a cancerous tumor -
which is not an individual life, which does not have its own blood type, its own heartbeat and its own DNA ?

Last edited by Lidwen Wraith; 05-13-2006 at 07:06 AM.
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