How come you have an appendix? Or a tailbone for that matter? Things change... or are you still living in the woods, hunting animals to survive?

Killing animals kills a living being just as much as killing a human. It is just that your personal morality has allowed you to believe that this murder is moral and correct. This is the same way I feel about a mother's right to decide over her own body.

Ahem, you really are just going pee-pee in the wind, hev...
since you yourself eat meat.
If you took your own argument seriously about making an equivalence between human prenates and animals, then I'd be very surprised that you are not busy addressing the thousands of inequities to animals in the present system.
Fortunately,
it's clear that you don't take your argument any more seriously than the average reader takes it...
why?
Because the overwhelming number of people on this planet consider humans to be in a separate category than other animals.
Meanwhile,
we've already established that killing a prenate is something a woman does to someone else's body.
As many times as that has been pointed out, you have never addressed it. Instead, you continue to repeat the bumper-sticker slogans provided by NOW and NARAL, as if repeating a falsehood enough times will make people believe it.

I eat meat, yes. A large number of people believe that eating animals is immoral. Just like a large number of people believe that it is wrong to abort.

THANK GOD that personal morality like this isn't dictated upon us in law so we can decide for ourselves.

The population of this country is almost exactly even in its split between people who view abortion the way you do, and people who view it the way I do.
By contrast, only a very small percentage of people feel it is morally wrong to eat meat.
Abortion is not a religious issue; it is a human rights issue.
Like many other human rights issues - like child labor, prison conditions, slavery, etc. - religious people have been prominent in speaking out about it.

Gotta go, see ya later if my luck runs out

Oh, I had to comment on THAT remark.
It has been the practice of pro abortion people to make sure the issue of abortion is taken out of the hands of American citizens. Instead they struggle to keep it decided by judicial fiat.
And that is what you call "deciding it for ourselves"
???

Not true. America has a strong majority of people that believe that abortion should remain legal. There would be such an outrage if abortion was to become illegal. We would join the countries of the world where religion has overtaken government and freedom of religion would be in jeopardy. I don't think Christians and non Christians want to see that day.

(Like same-sex marriage, Americans’ views on the issue of abortion affect their votes mostly in one direction. 34% say abortion should be generally available to those who want it, 44% say it should be available but under stricter limits, while 21% think abortion should not be permitted at all. Those views have changed little in recent years. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in657068.shtml)


True, there are probably only 20 million people that think eating animals is wrong in this country. Who is right? Just because it is a majority doesn't make it moral or right (as you would argue with abortion). Eating animals kills a living being just as much as abortion, maybe even more so since they are already born, yet because the bible does not grant animals any rights morals fail to apply (animals are treated with anything but morality in mind in the US as a result). One could argue that a great way to gauge a society's moral worth is how they treat their food animals. In this regard we have failed miserably.

So what is my point? Just because the majority of this country thinks that abortion should remain legal doesn't make it right. But unlike child labor, prison conditions, and slavery it is a PERSONAL CHOICE made with free will. Much like the personal choice of whether eating animals is moral or not.

Banning abortion would put us with some interesting company (the lesser developed countries in the world).

Remember the same people that want to ban abortion based on morality are usually the same people that want to prevent two consenting adults to love and marry the way they want. Pure evil if you ask me... trying to conform the world to their archaic theological views.

I see you're back to your straw man again hev. Please show me where I contended that abortion should be made illegal.
How surprising,
that you still have not managed to understand my position, although you and I have discussed this for days now.
My position is - and has been throughout this entire conversation - that elective abortion should be illegal.
"Elective" means NOT medically indicated.

Sorry, but your transparent attempts to rewrite history are not working.
It would certainly not be a case of "religion overtaking government". It would be a case of returning to the situation described in our Constitution, known as government "by the people" - as in, the people are consulted in these decisions.
By the way,
five non-elected black-robed men could decide that pedophilia should be legal, just as easily as they decided elective abortion should be. And it would be equally unconstitutional.

Your url, as well as every single one of the polls taken in the past few years, reflect a clear majority of people who want abortion restricted to life or grave health of the mother, rape, and incest.
That's been my position, and what I said to you was that at least half feel as I do. To which you replied,
"Untrue".

I suppose we can see now in black and white whose statements are untrue.

It is not a "personal choice" when it involves the taking of a second individual's life.

Not that it probably matters to you, but as one can see easily enough, I did not advocate "banning abortion".
And the fact is that the United States is one of only three or four countries in the world that allows abortion at any point in the pregnancy for any reason whatsoever (subject only to timid restrictions by the states after the second trimester).

Ah yes, guilt by association. What do you call that again? Oh yes, a "logical fallacy".

What, exactly, do you propose then?

[responding to hev's question about what I propose]

Abortion on demand, for reasons other than medical ones, is a violation of human rights - it is the only situation in which we allow a human being to be killed with impunity for reasons other than self defense.
It has also coarsened our view of human life as a society imo. Ask me when it's not so late to elaborate on that, if you want.
So,
I would advocate that "elective abortion" (abortion for non-medically-indicated reasons) should not remain legal with one exception:
The MAP should remain legal because it intervenes before implantation.

The status quo has expanded the definition of "health" to absurd dimensions: they include "familial health", "social health", "financial health"...in other words, they have made the word "health" a joke in this context.

My definition of grave health reasons would include mental health, but only as assessed by an actual mental health professional.

I would include exceptions for rape and incest but I would only do so for pragmatic reasons (to get the legislation past all those persons who like to dwell on the "hard cases") because I don't see how those circumstances constitute self defense, unless there is an attendant extreme mental crisis for the mother which might result in damaging herself or suicide.

I'll stop here due to the lateness of the hour, but can talk about it further next time.

Well, what can I say... that stance is not only the minority view of this country but the minority view of the free world. Your view resembles the stance of 3rd world countries and that says a lot in my opinion as to how dated it is.

If your view was to become reality women would seek dangerous medical care like the 20 million in 3rd world countries and crime would increase dramatically. It wouldn't make much sense especially since we are taking about the rights women have over their own bodies.

I am a young man and I doubt I will ever see the banning of abortion in America during my lifetime. And the more the truth spreads about the topic without the pitfalls of religious morality fogging the lense, the better the world will be.