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Affirmative Action & Race Issues Do you feel that affirmative action should be expired, or do you feel that it should still be enforced? Defend your views on affirmative action in this forum.

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Old 05-16-2006, 04:42 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
Well, what can I say... that stance is not only the minority view of this country but the minority view of the free world.
Not according to your own url and all the polls recorded at www.pollingreport.com
As you can see, the consistently largest group wants to see those restrictions on abortion.
Furthermore,
if this were the minority view that you want to claim it is, then why are your pals at NARAL and Planned Murderhood so desperate to keep this issue from going back to each state where the people can vote on it?

And... I thought you didn't care what the majority thinks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
Your view resembles the stance of 3rd world countries and that says a lot in my opinion.
Care to elaborate on exactly WHAT that says 'in your opinion'.
And since when are Ireland and Poland third world countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
If your view was to become reality women would seek dangerous medical care and crime would increase dramatically.
Sorry hev, but
1. Killing a human being for non medically indicated reasons does not equal "medical care".
2. As I've already told you, the vast majority of post abortive women polled said they would NOT have sought abortion if it had been illegal.
3. Even if they would have:
there are many illegal things that are dangerous to do. It is dangerous, for example, to break into houses and steal. If we made a rule that homeowners had to let you break in, it would be safer. Do you think we should do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
It wouldn't make much sense especially since we are taking about the rights women have over their bodies.
Fraid not. We are talking about rights you think women should have over the bodies of OTHER human beings.
No matter how many times you repeat your bumperstickers, I still see right through them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
I am a young man and I doubt I will ever see the banning of abortion in America during my lifetime.
Maybe you won't; that is neither here nor there (you don't look that young in your photo!)

Last edited by Lidwen Wraith; 05-16-2006 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 05-16-2006, 05:09 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidwen Wraith
Not according to your own url and all the polls recorded at www.pollingreport.com
As you can see, the consistently largest group wants to see those restrictions on abortion.
Furthermore,
if this were the minority view that you want to claim it is, then why are your pals at NARAL and Planned Murderhood so desperate to keep this issue from going back to each state where the people can vote on it?
From that site:






As you can see majority support to keep abortion legal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidwen Wraith
Fraid not. We are talking about rights you think women should have over the bodies of OTHER human beings.
No matter how many times you repeat your bumperstickers, I still see right through them.
Bumpersticker?
If you were using my body to support your life and I didn't want that I would end you, and because you were within the domain of my body I would have every right to. A fetus is no different.

And why would you care Lidwen... if they are going to straight to heaven anyway? The greatest gift according to Christian doctrine. The religion that usually resides behind being against abortion makes little sense when tested. However in reality banning abortion only makes society LESS moral through a dramatic increase in crime and poor health conditions for women.
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.

Last edited by hevusa; 05-16-2006 at 05:18 AM.
Old 05-16-2006, 01:03 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
How come you have an appendix? Or a tailbone for that matter? Things change... or are you still living in the woods, hunting animals to survive?

Killing animals kills a living being just as much as killing a human. It is just that your personal morality has allowed you to believe that this murder is moral and correct. This is the same way I feel about a mother's right to decide over her own body.
I cannot answer your question until you answer mine. That's how it works. I promise to answer yours as soon as you answer mine. How come you have carnivorous teeth?

So you feel that killing you would be no worse than killing a weasel?
Old 05-16-2006, 02:23 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I cannot answer your question until you answer mine. That's how it works. I promise to answer yours as soon as you answer mine. How come you have carnivorous teeth?

So you feel that killing you would be no worse than killing a weasel?

I think we were meant to eat meat to survive in the wild. But just like the appendix and tale bone things change, slowly, over time. I think our diet requires little to no meat at this point, and even less so in the future.

I don't think animals are worth less than humans, if that is what you are getting at. I am for abortion and I am for eating animals.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 05-16-2006, 03:07 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Okay. I am for eating animals and not for abortion. I see no relation between the two. In my opinion, abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. Capital punishment is the sentence of human being who has committed murder. I feel my morality is consistent. I feel your's is not.
Old 05-16-2006, 04:59 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Okay. I am for eating animals and not for abortion. I see no relation between the two. In my opinion, abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. Capital punishment is the sentence of human being who has committed murder. I feel my morality is consistent. I feel your's is not.

If anything my morality is consistent. I feel it is a matter of personal morality on both accounts... killing a fetus during abortion and killing alive, already born animals.

In both cases life is being extiguished. However your personal morality bends one way in one case and another way in the other... while I am consistent.
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 05-16-2006, 06:09 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Your morality allows you to kill an innocent human being, mine does not. The only way you can spin it is to say the fetus is not human and that defies logic and truth. The fact is, a human fetus is a living human being no matter what stage it is. For you to deny that is to believe a lie. You may not believe it, but it is a fact nonetheless. Lots of people believe the earth was flat and they were sincere, but they were sincerely wrong.
Old 05-16-2006, 07:10 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
From that site:






As you can see majority support to keep abortion legal.
As a matter of fact, I don't see that at all. You picked the only two questions that suggest otherwise.
Typical deceptive pro abortion tactics.
Notice how those questions were asked: the one about Roe for example implies that abortion would be completely banned without Roe, which is false.
After this I will show all the OTHER questions which show conclusively that the majority of people feel abortion should be restricted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
Bumpersticker?
If you were using my body to support your life and I didn't want that I would end you, and because you were within the domain of my body I would have every right to. A fetus is no different.
I see. A fetus is "no different" from some guy off the street I've never met who demands my bodily resources.
There is nothing unique about the situation of pregnancy; it's just like any other two people.
Okay, whatever you say hev.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
And why would you care Lidwen... if they are going to straight to heaven anyway? The greatest gift according to Christian doctrine.
Show me the Christian doctrine which says killing someone is "the greatest gift". Your ignorance on this issue strains my imagination.
Second, how do you know I am even a Christian?
You people are so amusing the way you stereotype your opponents. How do you know I am not a Buddhist (they oppose elective abortion) or a Muslim, or an Orthodox Jew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
The religion that usually resides behind being against abortion makes little sense when tested. However in reality banning abortion only makes society LESS moral through a dramatic increase in crime and poor health conditions for women.
In other words, the hevusa solution to poverty is,
"Kill the Poor (get 'em before they even come out)".
Old 05-16-2006, 07:30 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Hevusa went to the url I gave and returned to this argument armed with the two polls that gave the results near to what he wanted.
In both the polls hev chose, "leading questions" were used. I'll go into this later if anyone wants.

Now, let's have a look at some of the other questions from the same site which hevusa preferred to omit.

"In general, do you favor permitting a woman who wants one to have an abortion in all circumstances, some circumstances or no circumstances?"

All Some No Unsure
% % % %
4/4-10/06
24 53 20 4

"Do you favor laws that would make it more difficult for a woman to get an abortion, favor laws that would make it easier to get an abortion or should no change be made to existing abortion laws?"

More
Difficult Easier NoChange Unsure
% % % %
4/4-10/06
40 15 40 6


CBS News Poll. April 6-9, 2006. N=899 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

These are just two questions.
There are many more on the url I gave and the unmistakeable import of it is that the majority of Americans favor restricting abortion to women's life or grave health situations, rape and incest.

Hev, I personally find it hard to believe that you made that effort to convince anyone otherwise, when obviously all they had to do was click on the url and go see for themselves.
Please realize,
credibility is something that is very hard to recover once lost...

I also have to repeat the question I asked you twice yesterday and you still have not answered:

If the majority of Americans are as enthusiastic about abortion for any reason at any time, as you say...
then why are abortion advocates making such strenuous efforts to keep this issue from going back to the people for their vote in each state?

I am going to present a couple more polls recorded on the url I gave, just to show further how untrue your description was.
But I wish people would go there themselves, because the polls are hard to present on these posts, logistically speaking (laying them out and stuff).

Last edited by Lidwen Wraith; 05-16-2006 at 08:03 PM.
Old 05-16-2006, 07:57 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Couple more from the same url:

"Please tell me if you think abortion should be legal or illegal in each of the following situations . . . ."

Legal Illegal Unsure
% % %
"If the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest"

74 21 6 (2/28 - 3/1/06)

"If the pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk"

83 12 5 (2/28 - 3/1/06)

"If the pregnancy puts the mother's mental health at risk"

62 30 8 (2/28 - 3/1/06)


"If the pregnancy is unwanted"

43 49 8 (2/28 - 3/1/06)


CBS News/New York Times Poll. Jan. 20-25, 2006. N=1,229 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 .

"Which of these comes closest to your view? Abortion should be generally available to those who want it. OR, Abortion should be available, but under stricter limits than it is now. OR, Abortion should not be permitted."

Generally
Available//StricterLimits//NotPermitte//Unsure

%
%
%
%

1/20-25/06
38
39
21
2

12/2-6/05
38
39
20
5

4/13-16/05
36
38
24
2

3/21-22/05
35
37
25
3

2/24-28/05
35
40
23
2

1/14-18/05
36
35
26
3

11/04
34
44
21
1

7/04
34
42
22
2

1/03
39
38
22
1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Jan. 20-22, 2006. N=1,006 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.


Gallup Poll. Jan. 9-12, 2006. N=1,003 adults nationwide. MoE ±

"Would you like to see abortion laws in this country made more strict, less strict, or remain as they are?"

More Strict Less Strict Same Other (vol.) Unsure
% % % % %
1/9-12/06
38 20 39 1 3

1/3-5/05 38
19 41 - 2

1/12-15/04
37 20 40 1 2

1/13-16/03
36 21 39 1 3

4/5-7/02
39 17 41 1 2

1/7-9/02
39 19 39 - 3

1/10-14/01
34 17 46 1 2

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