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Affirmative Action & Race Issues Do you feel that affirmative action should be expired, or do you feel that it should still be enforced? Defend your views on affirmative action in this forum.

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Old 08-01-2006, 09:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Overcoming Racism...
For business/client reasons, I was in North Omaha recently. A black church in "da hood" had burned to the ground. No, it was not arson or a hate crime, but bad wiring. Everything they had is gone, and though the insurance will pay out more than the building cost them, it will by no means pay the replacement price for a new building.

So a neighborhood middle-class white church, of a different denomination, simply offered the people from this black Apostolic Church the use of their building. No rent. No strings attached. Just an offer.

Then the "white folk" invited the members of the black church to their annual picnic. I was present, by specific invitation. And what I saw was wonderful. About 75 of the blacks and probably 100 of the whites, all at the picnic behaving as though there were no different skin colors, cultural differences, or religious differences. Everything from fried chicken to rhubarb-strawberry cobbler. Though most of them had never met, there were both blacks and whites sitting together at just about every picnic table, yakking it up as though they were old friends.

Everybody that was present is a richer person for the experience. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if those two churches eventually just merge.


The point?

THIS is the answer to 21st Century racism - NOT the rantings of Jesse Jackson, Loius Farrakkaan and Al Sharpton. These people are doing what Affirmative Action will NEVER be able to do.

...and we need more of it. God bless them.
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Old 08-01-2006, 10:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
The point?

THIS is the answer to 21st Century racism - NOT the rantings of Jesse Jackson, Loius Farrakkaan and Al Sharpton. These people are doing what Affirmative Action will NEVER be able to do.

...and we need more of it. God bless them.
While I this story does show a nice gesture, I don't necessarily view it as a reason not to have affirmative action. I feel like you aren't the only one who thinks of these events as you described them. That is, I'll bet other people in the white church were happy to be of help to the black church, and that's how they described it: white people having lunch with black people without a sign of racism.

But we really shouldn't be thinking of it that way, I mean, why can't it simply be one church helped another? Perhaps I am so unimpressed with this story because I used to go to school with people of different races every day, and I now work with people of many races every day, and its become so common that when I get home it doesn't even occur to me that I should be proud that I wasn't racist.

If these churches integrated, maybe it would be a step in the right direction. But this still doesn't speak against affirmative action. It instead serves as a reminder to me that people are still thought of by their race.

Don't mistake me, however. I do believe that affirmative action is wrong. It is wrong because it treats people unequally based on race. We can't solve inequality with inequality: that just results in even more people being treated unfairly. Further, affirmative action perpetuates the wrong type of thinking. It encourages people to associate an individual's qualifications with his race. It makes people think, "Should I hire this guy? Let me check his race." That shouldn't even be on their minds. How can we expect people to stop judging one another by race if our laws demand that race be used to judge?

It is for those reasons that I think affirmative action is justly opposed.
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Old 08-01-2006, 11:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I would bet that I know some of those people from both churches. I lived in Omaha during the early 80s and played bass with a local gospel band. The leader was a DJ of the local Christian radio station and we played almost every church in that area. That's a nice story.

The reason the churches for the most part are not integrated is because the neighborhoods are not integrated. You can't force people. They will do it on their own. Look at the fiasco of forced school busing. No one was happy, black or white. I know. I also drove school bus in Omaha and drove the black kids out to the white suburbs. They were not happy.

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Old 08-01-2006, 12:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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On the subject of affirmative action, I found this poll which surprised me.

CBS News Poll. Jan. 5-8, 2006. N=1,151 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
"What do you think should happen to affirmative action programs? Should they be ended now, should they be phased out over the next few years, or should affirmative action programs be continued for the foreseeable future?"
Ended Now 12%
Phased Out 33%
Continued 36%
Unsure 19%
http://www.pollingreport.com/race.htm

I was shocked that 36% said that affirmative action should be "continued for the foreseeable future" and not phased out. I'm curious if more would have stated "phased out" if the time frame had been longer....

Regardless, it seems to me that affirmative action continuing without an end in sight would seem like a statement that either some races are inherently in need of additional help and cannot compete on their own merits, or that racism is insurmountable and such programs will always be needed...

Both are ridiculous IMO.
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I would bet that I know some of those people from both churches. I lived in Omaha during the early 80s and played bass with a local gospel band. The leader was a DJ of the local Christian radio station and we played almost every church in that area. That's a nice story.

The reason the churches for the most part are not integrated is because the neighborhoods are not integrated. You can't force people. They will do it on their own. Look at the fiasco of forced school busing. No one was happy, black or white. I know. I also drove school bus in Omaha and drove the black kids out to the white suburbs. They were not happy.
Can't give you the exact location of the Apostolic Church, but it's something like 24th & Grace Street. I could check next time I'm there.

But the point - that I believe Jaxion completely missed - is that there is a LOT of "we don't care about race" integration going on that has NOTHING to do with the government, or the political pot-stirrers. And it's good to see.


By the way, have you been to downtown Omaha lately - and seen the new Qwest Center and all the riverfront urban renewal? It's amazing!
Old 08-01-2006, 01:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think more Churches should have faulty wiring! It is the solution to our problem with racism.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
I think more Churches should have faulty wiring! It is the solution to our problem with racism.
Yes yes - another well thought-out post by our resident bigot.

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Old 08-01-2006, 03:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxian
While I this story does show a nice gesture, I don't necessarily view it as a reason not to have affirmative action. I feel like you aren't the only one who thinks of these events as you described them. That is, I'll bet other people in the white church were happy to be of help to the black church, and that's how they described it: white people having lunch with black people without a sign of racism.

But we really shouldn't be thinking of it that way, I mean, why can't it simply be one church helped another? Perhaps I am so unimpressed with this story because I used to go to school with people of different races every day, and I now work with people of many races every day, and its become so common that when I get home it doesn't even occur to me that I should be proud that I wasn't racist.

If these churches integrated, maybe it would be a step in the right direction. But this still doesn't speak against affirmative action. It instead serves as a reminder to me that people are still thought of by their race.

Don't mistake me, however. I do believe that affirmative action is wrong. It is wrong because it treats people unequally based on race. We can't solve inequality with inequality: that just results in even more people being treated unfairly. Further, affirmative action perpetuates the wrong type of thinking. It encourages people to associate an individual's qualifications with his race. It makes people think, "Should I hire this guy? Let me check his race." That shouldn't even be on their minds. How can we expect people to stop judging one another by race if our laws demand that race be used to judge?

It is for those reasons that I think affirmative action is justly opposed.

I think that Jefferson mentioned that they weren't the same denomination, so they might not want to integrate permanently.

Also, it was a lovely story, Jefferson.
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Last edited by Dylan; 08-01-2006 at 03:37 PM.
Old 08-01-2006, 04:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Can't give you the exact location of the Apostolic Church, but it's something like 24th & Grace Street. I could check next time I'm there.

But the point - that I believe Jaxion completely missed - is that there is a LOT of "we don't care about race" integration going on that has NOTHING to do with the government, or the political pot-stirrers. And it's good to see.


By the way, have you been to downtown Omaha lately - and seen the new Qwest Center and all the riverfront urban renewal? It's amazing!
That area sounds familiary. I bet we played at that church. I remember one black church we played in around 1982 and they had a visiting evangelist who said President Reagan was the antichrist because he had 6 letters in all 3 of his names, Ronald Wilson Reagan. He was serious and we had a good laugh afterwards.

Haven't been there since I left in 1986. They were just starting to change the warehouse district to shops and restaruants. I bet it looks a lot better than it did.

Last edited by alias; 08-01-2006 at 04:26 PM.
Old 08-01-2006, 08:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If the last time you were in Omaha was in 1986, you would be absolutely astounded by what the downtown area is like now. You wouldn't even think it wasa the same city.
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