Kos, as always you know how much I value your input and opinions about things. And I really appreciate you're taking the time to put your thoughts into words here.

I understand that because of racism, that some blacks may have a negative attitude towards whites that actually are being racists. My problem with PP wasn't that though. My problem was his instant assumption that because someone is white, that they are automatically racist themselves.

In no way did either Knot or myself make one racist comment about his being black. Nor did either of us make any negative comments as to his being a Muslim. Instead, it was PP who immediately jumped to the conclusion that we might/would simply because we're white? He perceives us as being Christians/having issues against his religious beliefs?

The whole time, PP was on the bandwagon of how bad whites are/were...And not some, but ALL whites. And in particular, Knot and myself with his comments of 'if the shoe fits' when we did everything to explain we didn't practice what he preached we did just cause we happen to be white.

I can understand someone having some negative experiences over their race. I honestly know how it is, how it feels to have someone look down on you or feel they have the right to abuse you for no other reason then your skin color. I'm not saying that that makes my experience worse/more important then another's though. But in PP's viewpoint, his experiences ARE more important/real then anybody elses unless they're black themselves...

PP asked for examples of white enslavement, then got nastier when it was given as he requested...Again with the 'well, that's unimportant and the only type that matters is my own' response.

You are correct...Hostility doesn't offer solutions. And racism in and of itself is being hostile. Whether it be directed by a white towards a non-white, or by a non-white directed towards a white. Both are equally wrong and equally hurtful. And stopping both are equally important.

Because as long as one individual keeps using any type of racism as a means to show hostility towards another, no solution will be found or enacted upon. All it takes is for one person to hate another because they're different, to continue the cycle of racism and hostility.

I'll also elaborate on Knot's comment that I included above...If a person really wants to prove that racism is wrong, that they wanted to fight racism, then they wouldn't allow themselves to act in a similar manner to that which they oppose...In otherwords, if they believe racism is the enemy, as well as those that act racist towards them, then they wouldn't adopt racism in turn towards others...They'd show how better they were by not being racists as well.

I've been the object of racism by a few blacks. But I've not let it cloud my mind or heart in regards to blacks in general. Just because some may have been racist towards me, doesn't speak for all blacks in that regards. And because I've allowed myself not to judge all blacks on the negative actions of a few, I've met and maintained friendships with those that are black despite the fact that 'racism against whites' exsists. Racism may live in other's hearts, it won't abide in my own.

And all I'm asking in return from PP is to do the same. Learn about the person, not saddle them with a stereotype.

I'm more glad that you responded with no hostility. That is all we need to do to start. I know my post was way out of line with all that swearing (my mother probably rolled over in her grave). Can we at least keep the hostility out and stick with all of us saying our thoughts on whether we agree or disagree with a post and why? Is that too much to ask?
Okay-PP, I think you are correct on the family values/ social problems issue. I just think one is the harbinger of the other.
I think you may have misunderstood totally the reason I mentioned those public figures. Firstly, it was not about power. It was about accomplishment and the way that this is now possible for Blacks when it never in history was before. Do you see this now?
My next point of contention is that you seem to think Bill Cosby and Oprah Winfrey had or have a responsibility to spend " money on Blacks". What I'm trying to say is that we have a responsibility to ourselves. We need to stop relying upon others to do for us. That is my issue.
If all welfare programs were ceased tomorrow, how many Blacks could even survive to the end of next month if they were not dealing drugs or robbing others? Every one of them, if they would only stand up on their own and stop waiting for somebody else to dictate their life to them. Is that not slavery in and of itself?

As usual Ali, Your wisdom is perfectly sound and I agree with you.

Personally I think that racism, regardless of who is doing it, is a very big problem. Assuming someone's thought process just because of the color of their skin is NOT acceptable.

Knot & Alcorn. I am sorry about the way I acted towards
you two. I am a man who is man enough to say I am sorry.
Whatever you two say I accept it. But I am tried of reverse
racism, and nobody wants to take the blame (including my
people). So again I am sorry for being rude.

Now we are getting somewhere to make a start, people! Let me also apologize, PP; for my tirade. I. too, only wish to engage in respectful debate There is no place for hostilty of the nature that has been expressed here lately; and that includes me as well. The reason I originally dropped off from responding on this thread was because I was starting to detect that very hostility rising in everybody. Hopefully, we are back to normal.

Perhaps the time for blame is over. Blaming someone never solved anything.

The things that happened to the slaves was terrible. But you must remember that while, yes, it was whites that owned slaves it was also whtes that fought to free the slaves too.

And all that happened 140 years ago. It's time to get past it. Anyone who might have been directly affected by slavery has long since passed away.

Racism in America does exist. I know it, I've seen it, from all sides. I grew up in Detroit, and believe it or not, Detroit is a VERY bigotted town, on both sides.

A little story I have....

When my son Nick was little, the movie 'batteries not included' came out. He loved that movie. He told me 'The best part was when that big man hit that bad man'. I was about to say 'you mean, that big black man?' but I stopped myself. If he didn't see a skin color I certainly shouldn't be pointing it out to him, and I shouldn't be seeing it, either.

Now, he's a senior in HS, and has friends of many races, Korean, black, white (he himself is 1/2 Mexican), as do all my sons.

Tell me, any of you guys ever see the movie American History X? A very powerful movie about one man's conversion from racist skinhead to a person who accepts everyone.

Thanks PP. I don't know if you know it, but I do appreciate your words here.

I'll have to echo Knot's words as well...Racism exsists. And even if you don't like discussions about reverse racism, not liking it doesn't make it stop exsisting or from happening.

The only people to blame, who should accept the blame for racism are those that actually are practicing and preaching racism...The hate groups themselves...Individuals who are in the public spotlight who are spreading the words of seperation and hate of other races and their followers...

Those are the people we both should be blaming. They are the ones we should be fighting against to rid our society of any and all racism...Instead of fighting one another (which they want us to be doing), we need to be working together for the betterment of ALL people. Not just the betterment of one group of people over another.

Racism do create pain and hate as we see on many message
boards as well as on here. I believe where the anger comes
in is where denial takes roots. I must admit that I do carry a
bunch of anger inside of me, and that's because racism took
five of my family members lives.

My attitute from the professional viewpoint is okay, but what
triggers me off is reverse racism, and I can't stand people who
say that we (Blacks) should forget about the past. However
like I said I do not know how the subject of this thread came
about, but I do know that it has brought out some serious
feelings, and my feelings is included.

The only two things that keeps me sane is the Almighty Creator,
and the professional field that I work in. So as we all see that
racism isn't only in the real world, but its here in cyberspace as
well. I was a Chatroom moderator for a still going provider, and
we established a interesting saying...that behind these screen
names is real people. Meaning that screen names are people
from all walks of life, and whenever they type a hate message
they are expressing their true feelings.

Thereforth, if someone has posted a message that's bashing
Blacks, the words that's in the message is real, and there is
no law that say one can not counter attack. You and I may
not want to face the true facts that (both) innocent Blacks
and Whites will catch hell for no reason at all.

In closing, In order to maintain a meanful messager board,
one should think what he or she is about to type.

Mr. Jaggers, that was about the best thing I've read on this subject so far. Knot, while your meaning is good; asking Blacks to "forget about slavery", or "get over it because it happed so long ago" is about as impossible as asking a survivor on the Nazi death camps of WWII to do the same. I know you did not mean it exactly in that context; but it might have been better served to have said " Since you or I cannot change the past; let us use such example(s) to make sure history does not repeat itself." I will honestly say that if everyone's tone had not calmed as considerably as it has over the last couple of pages of this thread, I might have taken umbrage at your statement. I want to thank everyone again for calming down. The world has more than enough problems with any or all of us becoming famous for starting the first "internet war".

It did happen a long time ago. No one alive today has been directly affected by slavery itself. By continuing to let it affect your life is giving it credence. And I would like to point out, you said 'Holocaust survivor'. There are no slavery survivors left alive now.

No, don't forget, but let it go.

I'm a strong believer in not letting bad things that might have happened to you affect your life. If someone does something horrible to you, how is hating or being angry at that person affecting him? It's not, but it's really screwing up your life, isn't it? The person you hate could care less, if they know at all.

My sister was murdered 30 years ago. I do not hate the men that did it. What good would it do? And what harm would it do me?