| Freedom of Speech Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; How far do you feel freedom of speech should go? | 
06-27-2007, 10:47 AM
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Points: 49,060, Level: 100 | Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed | | Feminists Should Work to Protect Pornography
A Critique of Anti-Porn Feminism
Do these accusations stand up under examination? Pornography Is Degrading to Women'Degrading' is a subjective term. I find commercials in which women become orgasmic over soapsuds to be tremendously degrading. The bottom line is that every woman has the right to define what is degrading and liberating for herself.The assumed degradation is often linked to the 'objectification' of women: that is, porn converts them into sexual objects. What does this mean? If taken literally, it means nothing because objects don't have sexuality; only beings do. But to say that porn portrays women as 'sexual beings' makes for poor rhetoric. Usually, the term 'sex objects' means showing women as 'body parts', reducing them to physical objects. What is wrong with this? Women are as much their bodies as they are their minds or souls. No one gets upset if you present women as 'brains' or as 'spiritual beings'. If I concentrated on a woman's sense of humor to the exclusion of her other characteristics, is this degrading? Why is it degrading to focus on her sexuality? Pornography Leads to Violence Against Women.A cause-and-effect relationship is drawn between men viewing pornography and men attacking women, especially in the form of rape. But studies and experts disagree as to whether any relationship exists between pornography and violence, between images and behavior. Even the pro-censorship Meese Commission Report admitted that the data connecting pornography to violence was unreliable.Other studies, such as the one prepared by feminist Thelma McCormick (1983) for the Metropolitan Toronto Task Force on Violence Against Women, find no pattern to connect porn and sex crimes. Incredibly, the Task Force suppressed the study and reassigned the project to a pro-censorship male, who returned the 'correct' results. His study was published.What of real world feedback? In Japan, where pornography depicting graphic and brutal violence is widely available, rape is much lower per capita than in the United States, where violence in porn is severely restricted. Pornography Is ViolenceWomen Are Coerced into Pornography:Not one woman of the dozens of women in porn with whom I spoke reported being coerced. Not one knew of a woman who had been. Nevertheless, I do not dismiss reports of violence: every industry has its abuses. And anyone who uses force or threats to make a woman perform should be charged with kidnapping, assault, and/or rape. Any pictures or film should be confiscated and burned, because no one has the right to benefit from the proceeds of a crime.Women Who Pose for Porn Are so Traumatized by Patriarchy They Cannot Give Real Consent:Although women in pornography appear to be willing, anti-porn feminists know that no psychologically healthy woman would agree to the degradation of pornography. Therefore, if agreement seems to be present, it is because the women have 'fallen in love with their own oppression' and must be rescued from themselves.A common emotional theme in the porn actresses I have interviewed is a love of exhibitionism. Yet if such a woman declares her enjoyment in flaunting her body, anti-porn feminists claim she is not merely a unique human being who reacts from a different background or personality. She is psychologically damaged and no longer responsible for her actions. In essence, this is a denial of a woman's right to choose anything outside the narrow corridor of choices offered by political/sexual correctness. The right to choose hinges on the right to make a 'wrong' choice, just as freedom of religion entails the right to be an atheist. After all, no one will prevent a woman from doing what they think she should do. A Pro-Sex Defense of Pornography
As a 'pro-sex' feminist, I contend: Pornography benefits women, both personally and politically. It benefits them personally in several ways: - It provides sexual information on at least three levels:
- it gives a panoramic view of the world's sexual possibilities. This is true even of basic sexual information such as masturbation, which seems to come less naturally to women than to men. It is not uncommon for women to reach adulthood without knowing how to give themselves pleasure.
- it allows women to 'safely' experience sexual alternatives and satisfy a healthy sexual curiosity. The world is a dangerous place. By contrast, pornography can be a source of solitary enlightenment. Pornography allows women to experiment in the privacy of their own bedrooms, on a television set that can be turned off whenever she has had enough.
- it provides a different form of information than textbooks or discussion. It offers the emotional information that comes only from experiencing something either directly or vicariously. It provides us with a sense how it would 'feel' to do something.
- Pornography strips away the emotional confusion that so often surrounds real world sex. Pornography allows women to enjoy scenes and situations that would be anathema to them in real life. Take, for example, one of the most common fantasies reported by women—the fantasy of 'being taken', of being raped. The first thing to understand is that a rape fantasy does not represent a desire for the real thing. It is a fantasy. The woman is in control of the smallest detail of every act.
Why would a healthy woman daydream about being raped?
There are dozens of reasons. Perhaps by losing control, she also sheds all sense of responsibility for and guilt over sex. Perhaps it is the exact opposite of the polite, gentle sex she has now. Perhaps it is flattering to imagine a particular man being so overwhelmed by her that he must have her. Perhaps she is curious. Perhaps she has some masochistic feelings that are vented through the fantasy. Is it better to bottle them up? Breaking Cultural and Political Stereotypes - Pornography breaks cultural and political stereotypes, so that each woman can interpret sex for herself. Anti-feminists tell women to be ashamed of their appetites and urges. Pornography tells them to accept and enjoy them. Pornography provides reassurance and eliminates shame. It says to women 'you are not alone in your fantasies and deepest darkest desires. Right there, on the screen are others who feel the same urges and are so confident that they flaunt them.'
- Pornography can be good therapy. Pornography prorides a sexual outlet for those who—for whatever reason—have no sexual partner. Perhaps they are away from home, recently widowed, isolated because of infirmity. Perhaps they simply choose to be alone. Sometimes, masturbation and vicarious sex are the only alternatives to celibacy. Couples also use pornography to enhance their relationship. Sometimes they do so on their own, watching videos and exploring their reactions together. Sometimes, the couples go to a sex therapist who advises them to use pornography as a way of opening up communication on sex. By sharing pornography, the couples are able to experience variety in their sex lives without having to commit adultery.
Pornography Benefits Women Politically
Pornography benefits women politically in many ways, including the following: - Historically, pornography and feminism have been fellow travelers and natural allies. Both have risen and flourished during the same periods of sexual freedom; both have been attacked by the same political forces, usually conservatives. Laws directed against pornography or obscenity, such as the Comstock Law in the late 1880's, have always been used to hinder women's rights, such as birth control. Although it is not possible to draw a cause-and-effect relationship between the rise of pornography and that of feminism, they both demand the same social conditions—namely, sexual freedom.
- Pornography is free speech applied to the sexual realm. Freedom of speech is the ally of those who seek change: it is the enemy of those who seek to maintain control. Pornography, along with all other forms of sexual heresy, such as homosexuality, should have the same legal protection as political heresy. This protection is especially important to women, whose sexuality has been controlled by censorship through the centuries.
- Viewing pornography may well have a cathartic effect on men who have violent urges toward women. If this is true, restricting pornography removes a protective barrier between women and abuse.
- Legitimizing pornography would protect women sex workers, who are stigmatized by our society. Anti-pornography feminists are actually undermining the safety of sex workers when they treat them as 'indoctrinated women'. Dr. Leonore Tiefer, a professor of psychology, observed in her essay "On Censorship and Women":
"These women have appealed to feminists for support, not rejection ... Sex industry workers, like all women, are striving for economic survival and a decent life, and if feminism means anything it means sisterhood and solidarity with these women."
The law cannot eliminate pornography, any more than it has been able to stamp out prostitution. But making pornography illegal will further alienate and endanger women sex workers. | 
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06-27-2007, 10:48 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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Points: 49,060, Level: 100 | Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed | | The above is an interesting article I found on line, and thought might seed good debate. The opinions in it are not neccesarily my own. | |
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06-28-2007, 07:03 AM
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Points: 10,008, Level: 66 | Level up: 67%, 42 Points needed | | Something my 18 year old son said the other day really upset me.
He said "You know, Mom, I hate feminists".
I asked him, "Do you even know what a feminist is?"
He replied "It's those people who hate men, say all kinds of bad things about men" etc.
I told him "Josh, I don't know where you are getting your information, but a feminist is just someone who believes that women should have exactly the same rights as men. There are extremes, just are there are extreme misogynists, but those aren't feminists".
It makes me really worried about the information that's getting out there. | |
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06-28-2007, 09:27 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Points: 49,060, Level: 100 | Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed | | Sadly I think your son may be right...
Words can take on new meanings. And the problem is that the only people who really tout being a feminist any more seems to be man hating lesbians (I am not implying all lesbians hate men), and women with a serious chip on their shoulder.
Your definition is definitely the correct one, and I consider myself a feminist by that definition, (another misconception is that men can not be feminists) but the fact remains that people who simply want equality for both sexes rarely (or at least not loudly) refer to themselves as feminists... | |
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06-28-2007, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tadpole256  Sadly I think your son may be right...
Words can take on new meanings. And the problem is that the only people who really tout being a feminist any more seems to be man hating lesbians (I am not implying all lesbians hate men), and women with a serious chip on their shoulder.
Your definition is definitely the correct one, and I consider myself a feminist by that definition, (another misconception is that men can not be feminists) but the fact remains that people who simply want equality for both sexes rarely (or at least not loudly) refer to themselves as feminists... | I think Rush coined the term 'Feminazi'.
Now, he classes all feminists into that category.
My little 80 year old mother, mother of 7, is probably the most raging feminist out there. She doesn't hate men, but she would absolutely fight like mad anyone who said women don't deserve equal rights.
She remembers those times when women weren't equal. She remembers being a 24 year old widow with two small daughters in the 1950's, and not being able to get a decent job, having to marry a man she didn't love just to be able to make ends meet.
I made my son watch the movie 'Mona Lisa Smile', and said "Josh, THAT'S why we need feminists." | |
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06-28-2007, 10:15 AM
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Points: 49,060, Level: 100 | Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed | | I have never heard of Mona Lisa Smile... | |
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06-28-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tadpole256 I have never heard of Mona Lisa Smile... | It was a movie released a few years ago starring Julia Roberts, Kirsten Dunst and Julia Stiles about a woman who becomes a professor at a girls college back in the 1950's. It really gave good insight on what the mentality in regards to what a woman was expected to be back then. It was fine to get an education, but then you were supposed to get married, have babies, and be reliant on your 'man'. | |
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06-28-2007, 11:46 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Points: 49,060, Level: 100 | Level up: 2%, 0 Points needed | | Yeah see, I want my woman to get educated and go to work, and I want to be a house husband and cater to her every whim...  | |
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06-28-2007, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by knot_e_lady I think Rush coined the term 'Feminazi'.
Now, he classes all feminists into that category.
My little 80 year old mother, mother of 7, is probably the most raging feminist out there. She doesn't hate men, but she would absolutely fight like mad anyone who said women don't deserve equal rights.
She remembers those times when women weren't equal. She remembers being a 24 year old widow with two small daughters in the 1950's, and not being able to get a decent job, having to marry a man she didn't love just to be able to make ends meet.
I made my son watch the movie 'Mona Lisa Smile', and said "Josh, THAT'S why we need feminists." | Yeah, I heard that term, "Feminazi" in the 1990's, when Rush played them on his show. At that time, I could not understand what the word "feminist" meant. I mean if they were married women, would they want to do things their way?? I am not very sure about this.
I read about what you said about your mom. Seems she is still a very high-spirited lady.
Maybe this is why I have been single for my whole life. I don't hate women. 
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06-28-2007, 05:32 PM
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Level up: 44%, 166 Points needed | | Back to the OT, I agree with much of what was in that essay. I've read/watched a few interviews with female porn stars. They pretty much said the same things.
Stuff like, "Hey, nobody forced me into this. I like it, I'm good at it and the money is great."
Anyway, no, I think most of your basic porn is not any more "degrading" of women than it is of men.
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