http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121300425.html

Investigator Sees Signs of CIA Role in Abductions
Poland and Romania Queried on Prison Issue

By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, December 14, 2005; A21



PARIS, Dec. 13 -- A European investigator said Tuesday that information he has gathered suggests U.S. intelligence operatives have abducted and transferred terrorism suspects in Europe "without respect for any legal standards" and that he has formally asked Poland and Romania whether the CIA operated secret prisons on their soil.

Dick Marty, a Swiss parliamentarian who is leading a probe into CIA counterterrorism tactics for the Council of Europe, the continent's main human rights body, also criticized Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice as not forthcoming about the CIA's anti-terrorism operations in Europe.

In a brief status report released Tuesday in Paris, Marty said he "deplores the fact that no information or explanations had been provided on this point by Ms. Rice during her visit to Europe" last week.

He said the only formal response he has received from U.S. officials was a copy of a Dec. 5 speech by Rice in which she defended U.S. policy and said Europe had benefited from the aggressive American approach to tracking down terrorism suspects around the world.

Marty offered no details of what he has uncovered during his investigation, which was prompted by a report in The Washington Post last month that the CIA has operated secret prisons for high-level al Qaeda figures in Eastern Europe since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The Post has not published the names of the East European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior U.S. officials. They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation.

Marty is also scrutinizing reports that the CIA has regularly transported al Qaeda suspects across Europe on a fleet of private planes.

The recent rush of disclosures about CIA activities in Europe has led to a number of investigations by prosecutors, parliaments and government agencies, including in Britain, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland, Austria and Denmark. Opposition lawmakers and human rights groups in Europe, saying that the alleged activities would violate local and international law on the treatment of prisoners, have questioned whether their own governments were complicit in the operations and have demanded answers.

On Saturday, Polish Prime Minister Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz said his government would open its own investigation into whether Poland allowed the CIA to run a secret prison on its territory. Although numerous Polish officials have denied the existence of any such prisons for weeks, Marcinkiewicz said persistent suggestions to the contrary "could be dangerous for Poland." Some European reporters and human rights groups have said they believe prisons were located in Poland and Romania. The government of Romania has also denied the allegations.

On Tuesday, Marty cited those two countries as targets of his probe into the prisons, saying he had requested specific information on the subject from their governments. At a news conference, he said he believed that the CIA has since closed its jails in Eastern Europe and transferred its prisoners to North Africa. That statement echoed a report last week by ABC News.

There are signs that the disclosures about the CIA prisons and other operations could threaten counterterrorism cooperation between U.S. intelligence agencies and their European counterparts.

Poland's former intelligence chief, Zbigniew Siemiatkowski, on Tuesday repeated a denial that Poland had ever hosted a prison for al Qaeda captives. But he blamed the CIA for leaking information about its worldwide secret prison network and suggested foreign spy agencies would be more careful about working with the United States in the future.

"It makes everybody wonder, what is going on with such an institution as the CIA that top-secret information is being leaked and whether it is worth sacrificing, literally, life for cooperation with the agency," Siemiatkowski said in a radio interview.

Rene van der Linden, president of the Council of Europe's parliamentary assembly, called on the U.S. Congress to pass a pending torture ban as a way to reassure its allies that the U.S. government would not resort to abusive measures when dealing with terrorist suspects.

"If these allegations remain unresolved, they risk damaging the image of the USA in Europe and thus transatlantic relations, at a time when global security requires a strong alliance amongst our countries," van der Linden said in a statement.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Somehow, the so-called secret prisons has now turned into abductions. Common sense would dictate that the leaders of your enemy should be removed from the area of operations to prevent the ability of the enemy from launching counter operations to gain their release. Transferring these prisoners to prisons in areas that are non-disclosed are just another step in protecting operational security. The transfer of these prisoners to the United States only invites more possible attacks by supporters on targets in this country.

So far the reports are speculation as no details have been released. Wow isn't amazing how many stories have this statement, and then once the details are released we come to find that the speculated allegations actually hold no water.

dmk

If it hadn't been proven that we have mis-treated and/or abused our prisoners in the past, there wouldn't be so much speculation. Holding them in secret locations prevents the objective monitoring of the conditions they are being kept under, which gives more cause for speculation, and that is justified.

Srg, it always amazes me that you insist on riding that Bush Band Wagon even though you know it has flat tires. Give me a break.
Once again I am compelled to prove you wrong because, once again, you are.
The CIA has a 'policy' known as rendition. The inter-workings of this so-called policy are really just a criminal plan. How these 'so-called prison are turning into abductions', as you so eloquently put it, is all there for us to see as a matter of record. No opinion, no speculation, no theories, and no liberal babble, just plan facts.
Snatching someone up, because there name is similar to someone else's, having no other probable cause, no warrant, no paper work even filed, no promise of a court hearing his case, then giving him an enema, putting him in a diaper, drugging him so he can't complain, flying him to a prison,
(the salt pit in this case) telling him no one knows where he is and if you are killed no one will know, keeping him locked up for months at a time without any contact with the outside world, is so illegal in this country. If you or I did this we would rightfully be lock up for ever. Even the police can't do such things. It is worse than abduction it is a CRIMINAL ACT. Please.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10348907/


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/briefs/0,,...ws-eng-580-rdf


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,18062,00.html


http://news.corporate.findlaw.com/ap...5a0862ed9.html

I agree with you Sarge... Civilians are frequently too quick to judge things that they don't know enough about, especially after hearing about a few isolated incidents. The handling of detainees is very complicated and there are a lot of things about it that would look strange to the untrained eye, that has very legitimate reasons. Let us not forget also that these people are our ENEMY. They have absolutely no rights that we do not grant them out of the goodness of our hearts. If you want them to stop being treated this way, end the war, and bring our boys home.

Hey four stories all about one guy. Wow, how many detainees has the United States had??? One guy is complaining. Was it wrong, yeah, but mistakes do happen, so now once again we are to scratch an effective system because one mistake has occurred. Under that reasoning, should the New York Times be shut down, they have had two reporters found to be less than ethical, plagarizing and making up stories, or how about Newsweek, they out right lied and cause rioting and deaths in other countries because of an article, or my favorite, The Nation, had a reporter who made up something like 10 stories.

For that matter, lets just take it all the way, this policy should be scrapped because it has made mistakes, while we are at it, we need to scrap increasing funding to education because despite our increases, the SAT scores have not increased, we should scrap welfare, because last year along there were approximately 150 cases of fraud discovered.

Bad things happen to good people, for that we are all sorry. However, it is the government who is ultimately held responsible for the protection of our citizenry. Yet time and again we want to hamper our government from doing just that, protecting us. And then when we are hurt, we want to know who knew what and when, and why was there a failure. I am sorry but you cannot have your cake and to eat it too.

dmk

Once again srg, you are missing the point that these kidnappingsdo happen and are not the type of thing we should be engaged in. How many cases do we have to have? The U.S. has admitted it was wrong in this case so my point is that these renditions do happen and they are not legal. Maybe you think that in our protection of our people we should compromise what we stand for. These acts by our govenment are immoral, inhumane, and illegal and in this case we didn't protect shit. We are suppose to be the civalized ones. Our senate just shot down our ability to torture people. That we even got to the point of questioning what is right and wrong in this issue just proves what having one party in charge of all three sections of the government will do. Yes, ultimate power does lead to ultimate abuse of power. If it is illegal for the prison/court system to treat and transport inmates this way what makes you think that we should lower ourselves to the level of terrorists? In this case the CIA were very real terrorists even if they only terrorized one man. How may others are silent, or silenced? Don't tell me just one case. We wouldn't need whole prisons for just one case. As I said earlier, this practice is wrong and should be stopped. Protect the people, but like real Americans would do. With a firm a hand but with at least a little show of reason. We can handle these people like people, without stooping to their level. If we used these methods to transport cattle we would be barbaric and it would be illegal. Never mind human beings. Either we act like a civilized, compassionate, country or we act like Saddam did. How can anyone think there is a middle ground here?

Something civilians will never understand about war... You can't be civilized. There is nothing civil about war. All is fair. What we need to do is end this war all together. But if we are going to committ to it, we need to committ to it completely and let the military do what it's best at, winning wars. You don't question your doctors methods... Leave war to the proffessionals. If you don't like what it entails, then tell your politicians to end it all together. Otherwise, slaughter the fuckers. All of them, until everyone of our boys can come home.

Guys, it is true I have never been in the military so I sure have to agree, that I might not have the insight that you guys do, into this subject. I do think we need to go all out in Iraq, but sadly we have not. The reason for the mission there and the reason for continued involvement keeps changing. I am giving my view of what I see going on in Iraq and I feel fairly confident in saying I share the view of the majority on this. What our country looks like to it's citizens and the rest of the world is just plane disgraceful. I can see how this type of treatment maybe needed in some situations. I just feel that this program needs checks and balances just like any other govenment program. Right now there are none in place.
We atleast can have a secret court to review the probable cause for holding these people. If they truely are the enemy then I have really no sympathy. But this case was not the enemy. This was a case of a innocent person being kidnapped and abused, not to mention the months locked up thinking he would die any time. I'm sure we can all agree there maybe more cases like this in the system as it is now. If they are not the enemy we should be giving these people rights, and not just out of the kindness of our heart, but out of the amendments laid down by our constitution.

Did you even read the articles that you posted??? The man was not kidnapped he was detained while trying to enter a country, taken into custody and then transported to Afghanistan where he was detained and questioned.

As far as the torture issue goes, once again that goes to the definition of what is torture. We have people who are claiming that interrogation techniques such as sleep deprivation, temperature manipulation, and sensory depravation are torture. This notion that somehow degrading someone is torture is outrageous, and out right dumb.

Once again, if you are willing to tie the hands of those who duty it is to protect our nation, by all means go ahead, however, when something does happen to this country, don't go crying about why they didn't protect us.

dmk