| ||||||
| Gun Control Debate and defend whether or not you believe that the second amendment protects individual rights to bear arms. |
![]() |
| | LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| | #1 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Block Captain ![]() Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Country: ![]()
| Second Amendment (and some other questions) Maybe someone can explain the second amendment to this Canadian. No matter how many times I read it all I see is improper use of a comma. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Now, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed." makes sense. "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms" just seems mashed in. Is it saying "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is necessary for a well-regulated Militia? The kind of civilian militia that doesn't exist? (You don't bring your own gun when you join the army). If this is the case, why isn't stressing over the fact that America has no well-regulated militia? (Other than white supremacists in Washington and Oregon). While I'm at it, does anyone really believe that if the American government couldn't subdue its own people? You have a rifle. They have a billion dollar military fund. Also, do you really think the government would just attack its own citizens? I mean, that happens eventually but doing that from the start is so 19th century. We know now that you start with a slow dissolution of citizen's rights, creation of an enemy (or enemies) within, further government control, suppression of free speech, less privacy in the name of security. Once you've succeeded there, then you can start using a little more force. Maybe militia-like teams that can bust into people's homes for little reason. Or something like that. [For those of you playing at home, "Free speech zones", "Presidential wire-tapping", PATRIOT ACT, SWAT) I dunno. Makes more sense to me to watch for those crimes rather than think your rifle (or ak-whatev) is really going to make a difference. [PS. I'm not for the abolition of guns. Hunting and protecting your home in the inevitable apocalypse are good reasons to have a gun. I'm just questioning the "It's gunna protect me from the guvmint" line of reasoning.] | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Sponsored Links |
| | #2 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned ![]() Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Gender: ![]() Posts: 11,893 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
The Second Amendment has resulted in the unnecessary deaths of millions of Americans. The gun culture seems to be distinctly American. Peer nations, including Canada, look on in disbelief | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #3 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Block Captain ![]() Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 241 Country: ![]()
| I am also glad we agree on something | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #4 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Senator ![]() Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Columbus, OH Gender: ![]() Posts: 3,758 Country: ![]()
| Whether the purpose of the right to 'keep and bear arms' was intended only for the preservation of militias is still something that is contended. But the general consensus in America is that the people regardless of militia status have a right to own firearms. In the light of the culture at the time of the second amendment's passage, I personally believe that it had more to do with the preservation of militias; as such 'minuteman' militias were instrumental to the winning of American independence. And at the time, local militias were more of an integral part of American life that to suggest the government taking away such a right to defend their localities by banning such organizations or their ability to arm themselves was seen as taking away a town's right to defend them and their families from outside aggression (mainly invaders and Indians) as well as tyranny. And at the time, militias were vastly comprised of everyday people; so "the people" and "militia" in terms of the right to keep and bear arms was almost synonymous at the time. And of course now the cultural climate of America (we now have a standing Army, etc.) is so different that "the people" and "militia" isn't so synonymous anymore. Whether that connotes the irrelevance or now the heightened importance of an armed populace will be a topic of future contention. But I believe we at least need to underline the vast differences in the America then with the America now. But I'm sure most other Americans on this board will disagree with me. But even with that in light, I don't think the government has the prerogative to completely ban weapons anyway. I used to be completely pro-gun rights; I would essentially disagree with any legislation that would place any kind of hindrance on the populace to be able to blow things away. I think I've matured this line of thinking by now. Now I see the virtues in certain caps, and especially gun registration; but I also don't think guns should be completely outlawed. Generally speaking, the responsibility of gun safety should be placed on the shoulders of those using them (or the parents of those using them). Likewise, if someone commits a crime with one, you should punish that individual under the law rather than attempt to somehow lessen such crimes by banning that specific weapon. Also, something that is contrary to popular belief in the United States and something worth sharing is that, I believe the Second Amendment hasn't even been officially applied to the states. So theoretically any state could pass laws abolishing private gun ownership within the realms of the law and Constitution. That is, until someone takes it to court and the Supreme Court finds that the 14th Amendment applies the 2nd Amendment also to the states. Quote:
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Economic Left/Right: -9.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72 Last edited by Katczinsky; 07-16-2007 at 09:00 PM. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #5 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned ![]() Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Gender: ![]() Posts: 11,893 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
That's a very astute observation. Any ideas why America seems so fearful of everything including their own government?? I agree that simply banning guns wouldn't achieve much, it would take a gradual re-education program, something like the anti-smoking campaign. And it would take decades to succeed if ever. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #6 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Council Member ![]() Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Flint, MI Gender: ![]() Posts: 1,003 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
I've lived in areas where the crime rate is low, and where it is high, and those statistics don't really play into what is shown on the news at night. Why do they do it? Ratings. The nightly news is but a business owned by a corporation, whether it be General Electric, Time Warner, News Corp, etc. To keep making money, to keep their "businesses" lucrative, they need ratings. Fear sells, violence sells, sex sells, it's very simple really. Everything I say is a lie, and that is the truth. Last edited by mikelew007; 07-16-2007 at 09:48 PM. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #7 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned ![]() Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Gender: ![]() Posts: 11,893 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
1. The culture of fear dates back well before the advent of television and other mass media, and certainly long before cable news. 2. Many other countries have similar media but don't feel the need to be armed at all times. Infact they feel just the opposite - that guns are best left out of everyday life. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #8 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Senator ![]() Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Columbus, OH Gender: ![]() Posts: 3,758 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Economic Left/Right: -9.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #9 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Senator ![]() Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,836
| Quote:
Britain also has its "big brother" concerns... BBC NEWS | Politics | Watchdog's Big Brother UK warning Big Brother: What it really means in Britain today - Independent Online Edition > UK Politics "(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish." -- Jon Stewart "Please don't judge others by your own standards." -- Garysher | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #10 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Council Member ![]() Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Flint, MI Gender: ![]() Posts: 1,003 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
Yes, the culture of fear has been around for far longer than the advent of electronic media; but with radio, television, and the internet, it is so much easier to spread one's message, to spread fear. A news report can tell the masses of the next possible flu pandemic a hell of a lot quicker than any town crier could, no matter how loud he was. Everything I say is a lie, and that is the truth. Last edited by mikelew007; 07-16-2007 at 11:42 PM. Reason: eye dun speeld sum werds rongg! | ||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
« Previous Thread
|
Next Thread »
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 PM.




















Linear Mode