God Bless Atheism

tadpole256 · 08-03-2007, 11:30 PM

This is perfectly put...
LiveLeak.com - God bless atheism

hevusa · 08-05-2007, 12:50 AM

Interesting video. Smart guy.

tadpole256 · 08-05-2007, 12:53 PM

Agreed

Jaxian · 08-06-2007, 11:50 AM

I do agree with what he says, though I'm sure I would not have phrased it the same way.

What stands out most in my mind is the statement that if religion is involved, evil isn't too far away. I think this is the real problem with religion. It is the reason videos like this exist: religion leads too many people to commit evil acts.

hevusa · 08-06-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxian

I do agree with what he says, though I'm sure I would not have phrased it the same way.

What stands out most in my mind is the statement that if religion is involved, evil isn't too far away. I think this is the real problem with religion. It is the reason videos like this exist: religion leads too many people to commit evil acts.

I think this evil stems from a very basic and simple place; being dishonest about knowing God!

I don't think too many people would argue that honesty should prevail over dishonesty, ie the world would be a better place if it contained more honesty. Then in the same breath they will argue they know God exists even though they can't provide any objective proof.

ccvasquez · 08-06-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

religion leads too many people to commit evil acts.

C'mon now. That is like saying the polio vaccine leads too many people to become drug addicts.

ccvasquez · 08-06-2007, 03:13 PM

[/quote]Then in the same breath they will argue they know God exists even though they can't provide any objective proof.[/quote]

That is the definition of faith...and it is unprovable. That is the honest truth. I do not know of a single Christian religion that says otherwise.

OTO - Many people subscribe to the big bang theory even though how it was caused to happen is a scientific mystery. So they insist - without any proof - that God did not create the universe, there is no God, and all believers are self deluding fools.

I don't mean to demean science, I am just pointing out that there are "true believers" on both sides of the aisle. Christians are not the only ones who take things on faith and then feel threatened when challenged.

Jaxian · 08-06-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

I think this evil stems from a very basic and simple place; being dishonest about knowing God!

Personally, I think the evil of religion stems from the systems of morality presented by religion. Each one has its own set of rules, but any set of rules which cannot be summed with "improve the wellbeing of other people" is immoral.

Morality means being kind to others, but religion tricks people into believing that whatever their religion asks them to do is moral. So when a controversial situation appears, instead of looking for the option which best helps people, they look for the option which agrees with their religion. That is the root of religious evil.

Jaxian · 08-06-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccvasquez

C'mon now. That is like saying the polio vaccine leads too many people to become drug addicts.

I believe you are saying that religion leads only a small minority of people to commit evil acts. I disagree. When I talk about evil acts, I am not talking only about murder, but about any action which harms another person for no reason.

The easiest example of what I'm talking about is political issues. Any person who votes in favor of putting the ten commandments up in our courts, for example, is committing an evil act. Anyone who opposes stem cell research is committing an evil act. Any person who opposes gay marriage is committing an evil act. All of these things hurt people for no reason, and so they are evil. But so many people do these things that it is almost unthinkable. These widespread evils are most often committed for religious reasons.

I suspect you are religious, so perhaps you will disagree with me about these issues. If so, then I can show you what I mean by looking at older times. In the World's history, religious beliefs have been the primary justification for war and genocide. Religious beliefs have justified inquisitions, where atheists and people of other religions were murdered and deported. Religious beliefs brought us the idea of manifest destiny, which led Americans to massacre Native Americans. These evils are rooted in following a moral system other than kindness toward others.

garysher · 08-06-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxian

I believe you are saying that religion leads only a small minority of people to commit evil acts. I disagree. When I talk about evil acts, I am not talking only about murder, but about any action which harms another person for no reason.

The easiest example of what I'm talking about is political issues. Any person who votes in favor of putting the ten commandments up in our courts, for example, is committing an evil act. Anyone who opposes stem cell research is committing an evil act. Any person who opposes gay marriage is committing an evil act. All of these things hurt people for no reason, and so they are evil. But so many people do these things that it is almost unthinkable. These widespread evils are most often committed for religious reasons.

I suspect you are religious, so perhaps you will disagree with me about these issues. If so, then I can show you what I mean by looking at older times. In the World's history, religious beliefs have been the primary justification for war and genocide. Religious beliefs have justified inquisitions, where atheists and people of other religions were murdered and deported. Religious beliefs brought us the idea of manifest destiny, which led Americans to massacre Native Americans. These evils are rooted in following a moral system other than kindness toward others.

Hey Jax, I think you are expressing a very vague notion of what is evil and what is kindness!

I think you are grossly undervaluing the concept of evil. Putting up the 10 Commandments in a court isn't evil! No more than putting up verses from the Quoran.

I agree you may not want the legal system to be based on either, but that doesn't make it evil.

And basing an entire moral system on kindness towards others may be cute, but it's wide open to interpretation and therefore wholly inadequate.

If you are a parent you will know that sometimes you have to discipline children to show kindness. One person's kindness is another person's punishment.

And I fail to see why opposing gay marriage is evil. Do you feel the same way about opposing polygamy, or incestuous marriage?

You also omit any mention of all the great acts of kindness which are carried out in the name of religion from time immemorial.

Not to mention the billions of lives that have been blessed and given purpose through a religious faith.