How bad do gays have it, really, in our society?

I mean no offense by asking this, I would just like us to take an honest look at it, and perhaps come to a better understanding.

As with many issues, this one in the public/political arena is getting lost in sound bytes and talking (or screaming) points. I would like to move beyond all that.


A quick breakdown of my impressions.

IMO, on the "con" side for gays, they:

* Can't form a legally recognized life partnership. (Please, I don't want to quibble over the "should it be marriage or civil union" thing.. that's another thread.)

* Have to worry more than most average people about things like being harrassed, insulted or assaulted. (And in extreme cases, even murdered.)

* Can be fired from a job simply for being gay. (Although honestly, given today's political climate, any employeer who did that in a situation in which there would be ANY publicity would be insane, and could probably kiss his business goodbye.)

* Can be "rejected" by family and/or religious circles when they "come out."

On the "pro" side for gays:

* There are openly gay people serving in Congress and in other offices at all levels of government.

* There are highly-respected actors, musicians, artists and other high-profile people who are openly gay, and seem to be doing just fine.

* There are prosperous gay people everywhere.

* Even in the region in which I live -- which is by most people's standards the backwater of redneckville -- I've met several gay people who seemed to be doing okay, and had jobs that anybody in these parts would feel lucky to have.


So, my contention is this:

Based upon what I know so far, is that gays do suffer a level of inequality in our society and still battle some social stigmas.
Depending on where they live, how their family reacts and numerous other variables, this has been absolutely horrible for some gays, merely a minor annoyance for others -- and everything in between those two extremes.

But to describe the entire group of them as "oppressed" or "persecuted" is going overboard.

Of course, that's my opinon, based on what I know.. and I could be off-base.


I look forward to what everbody else knows and has to say about this.

<But to describe the entire group of them as "oppressed" or "persecuted" is going overboard.

Oppressed & persecuted -two words that are as over used by the political spectrum as tyranny.

I don't think you understand the VAST legal and financial consequences which you group together as "Can't form a legally recognized life partnership."

I believe you could say the same things about African Americans. Do you think they have an (unnecessarily) rougher time of it than white American?

I think I do, well maybe not totally, but better than you're giving me credit for.

I was just trying to be brief in kicking this discussion off.

Depends on many things.

Generally speaking, yes.

And generally speaking, yes, I think gay people "have a rougher time" but that can vary SO much from person to person.

You know what pisses me off, is that you always throw out that African American BS. While you have the right to do so, the difference between why African American are discriminated against in this country are so different than why gays are pretty much deemed abnormal by the whole freaking human species. Come freaking on dude they don't correlate.

And if you think they do, try to explain it to me. Because I don't see it. I do a much better job with my correlation, and it gets even better with time as I read on other cultures.

Well, I would agree that "oppressed" is (generally) going a bit far. If you are looking for a middle place between that concept and "treated equally," I think the phrase "discriminated against" covers it.

Your summary of our situation is pretty much right on target.

There is a massive setback contained in the simple phrase "Can't form a legally recognized life partnership." This impacts gay couples literally every day. In the heart, in the wallet, in the soul.

The massive sense of outrage and injustice I feel when I hear about a 40 or 50 year gay partnership ending with one death and one becoming homeless... it's maddening.

On a more personal level, I spent a couple nights in the hospital earlier this year, and my wife was asked to go home after visiting hours ended, because only "family" can stay overnight.

Also on a personal note, regarding your "harrassed, insulted or assaulted" bullet point, I have personally experienced all three in my adult life, simply as a result of just being me. (One occasion involved a hospital stay as well.)

Just yesterday at lunch, I listened to a coworker tell me a story about a close lesbian friend who lives here, but is a French citizen. She has been here for many years, with her employer promising to sponsor her for citizenship. Now that her time is running out, her employer has rescinded that promise. In the meantime, she bought a house, fell in love with a woman, and built a life here.

If she had fallen in love with a man, she could marry him to stay in the country. She doesn't have that option. She must instead leave her life here for at least a year and live abroad before she can come back and start the process over again. Massive injustice and inequality.

So, to answer your question... how bad do we have it?

It's still pretty bad. But it could be (and has been) a lot worse... and it IS getting better... just very, very slowly.

Do you ever have any problems because you married a white woman?