...We have all got used to the 'kill gays' 'exterminate gays' 'gays should be butchered', etc. rantings from the more fringe element of the anti-gay extremist movement.

And we have all seen the postings from fxashun, garysher, etc. who self-righteously defend themselves saying they have never advocated violence against homosexuals.
These postings are, of course, either disingenuous or uneducated. I believe they know the impact their words have on the society - I don't believe they are as stupid as their words would lead one to think they are.

Whenever a person denigrates, dehumanizes and demonizes a separate community and/or group of people, that person is helping to foster the society, atmosphere, culture that commits violence against that group of people. It is common strategy used by any culture which is determined to marginalize and discriminate against an individual minority group.

By making the general public feel this group is 'less than,' 'inferior,' and 'not human,' they give tacit approval for the violence performed against that group by the violent fringe of their movement.

Just as every racist in America did not drag James Byrd to his death, every person who helped foster an environment which said that african americans were subhuman, less than whites, and inferior helped to chain him to the back of the pick up truck that dragged him to his death.

Don't be fooled by these people who seemingly want to engage in debate - but are actually spreading the dehumanization and demonization of all gay people throughout the society. Their disingenuous 'non-violent' words do not tell the story of the reality of their words.

The reality is, they are absolutely doing their own personal portion of the extremists' agenda.

And don't forget, the extremists also say that all gays have AIDS, which is entirely untrue.

As for FX, I enjoy conversing with him.

And as for Gary, he says he does not hate gays and lesbians, but what happens when he calls them with the four-lettered "h" word? That shows his hatred of them.

Maybe they are too full of hate to even realize how much hate they are actually spewing?

Well, I think words do have an effect, there's no doubt in my mind about that.

But with all due respect to Tristan, I think he's falling back on a common tactic of the gay-rights movement -- and one that I think will eventually backfire on it.

I'm not really comforatable talking "about" other posters in direct terms. So, as tempted as I am. It think I'll refrain from it.

I'll just say I've yet to see anyting on these boards that describes homosexual people themselves as "subhuman," or "lesser" or whatever.

Have some people put things more bluntly than I might have? Yes. But as far as people being "hateful?"

No, I don't see it. Other than some personal jabs (which often go both ways). I've honestly not seen it.

Again, I see this coming from the gay rights movement all too often. People will say something "negative" about homosexuality, and it will get politicized and twisted into a personal attack on the gay people themselves.

I think the hysteria over Dr. Laura a few years ago is a classic example of this. And ironically it was a lesbian, political commentator Tammy Bruce, who saw through it and stepped up to defend Dr. Laura's right to express herself without being smeared as "hateful."

The gay rights movement simply MUST learn the difference between disagreement, a difference of opinion, disapproval and actual HATE. By slapping the "hate" label on everything, the gays eventually start to look hysterical, extreme and themselves intollerant.

The argument "your thoughts/words cause people to be hurt/killed" is, IMO, in itself an iron fist in an not-so-thick velvet glove, which smacks of simply wanting those who disagree with you to shut up.. or perhaps even BE shut up.

I'm sorry if my words here have offended anybody, but I do honestly feel very strongly about this. I've also come to respect and yes -- as much as one can know others simply through postings/photos on an internet forum -- come to really like some of the posters here. And I certainly don't DIS-like anybody here.

I sincerly hope we can contiue to have these discussions without getting too nasty or losing the basic affection I think all humans should have for one another.

One more thought on this, the argument trying to find a connection between a line of thought/expression and negative action is nothing new.

Not that long ago the rock band Judas Priest (who by the way, have an openly gay lead singer) were dragged into court because some of their music had supposedly "caused" young people to commit suicide.

Anway, I'm highly dubious of such claims, regardless of where they come from.

I appreciate your saying that.

I have posted several times that I don't hate homosexual people. I have stated ad nauseum that I only feel that the word "marriage" should be reserved for heterosexual unions. Of course someone is gonna challenge why I feel that way, and I give my reasons. I don't mind someone not agreeing with me, but saying I hate gay people or that I'm dehumanizing someone just for stating my opinion is utter BS. If you don't want to have a discussion with differing opinions, don't join the debate. I don't accuse gay people of "hating" Christians, even though it is obvious from some people's posts they have a distinct bias against that religion.

Speaking of words...
WorldNetDaily: Define and conquer

I know my posts have come across a bit blunt at times, and I'm actually gonna tone down my words a bit. I don't want to come across as hating gay people to someone who is just coming to the forum. I'm tired of having to post "I don't hate gay people" every couple of days.

A human is supposed to be born with 4 fingers and thumb. Some aren't. If I look at a persons' hand and see he/she is missing a finger it's not hate if I make the determination that that condition is abnormal. And it is absolute lunacy if that person and others like him/her decides to go on a crusade to convince everyone that it's "natural" to be born with 4 fingers.

Reminding the rest of the world how it all started, famed Austrian Nazi hunter
Simon Wiesenthal said,

'In the beginning, there were the words.'". ...
first we dehumanize our enemies
we demonize them
paint them as subhuman, sick, degenerate, perverts, disgusting, inferior, immoral....
not fit to mingle with real humans
not fit to live
then
when we round them up and systematically eliminate them
everyone will understand...
it had to be done
they were filthy
they were animals
they were disgusting
it had to be done
it's to make the world a better place for the rest of us....
its not like they were REAL people.....
they were just "jews, gays, blacks, atheists"
subhumans
words of hate lead to acts of violence

Where do you get hate out of, "I think that homosexual people have a problem"? That's just stating a fact. A human has body parts that indicate their correct uses. And we reporduce our species if we follow the indicated use. Where is the hate in that?

Again comparing the determination that homosexuality is wrong to racism is a very weak argument. Homosexuality goes against the laws of complex animal species. No animal alive reproduces homosexually. Racism is nowhere near as universal.

I think you're taking this a bit too far. The vast majority of straight people do not hate gays to the point of wanting their destruction. There will always be nitwits who do; however, I would be more concerned about the impact of terrorism and the war in Iraq before the rantings of a few extremists.

Yes, words of hate CAN lead to acts of violence.
Although this statement REALLY oversimplifies how it all got started. There had been tension between Jews and others in Europe for hundreds of years. Hitler and the Nazis didn't INVENT the hatred of Jews.. they just played up on it because it was politically advantageous for them to do so. Totalitarian movements NEED a boogeyman in order to succeed.

Anyway, that's beside the point.

When people say truely HATEFUL things about gays (or anybody), I'm on your side.
But not everybody who deviates even one wit from: "Homosexuality is perfectly natrual for some people and there's absolutely nothing wrong or strange about it" is being HATEFUL.

The sooner the gay rights movement can realize this, the better chances they have, IMO, of not ultimately looking intollerant themselves and suffering severe setbacks.