Defending the Truth
Earth
Click here for free registeration..
Quick Search
11/23/07 - Now offering premium membership for only $25.00!! Click here to get started.!

Go Back   Defending the Truth > Debate Politics > Global Politics
Global Politics Debate US and International politics here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2007, 09:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
Council Member
 
baloney_detector's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 2
Thanked 54 Times in 23 Posts

Points: 5,331, Level: 46
Points: 5,331, Level: 46 Points: 5,331, Level: 46 Points: 5,331, Level: 46
Level up: 47%, 19 Points needed
Level up: 47% Level up: 47% Level up: 47%
Activity: 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%

High Stakes Game in Northern Iraq

High Stakes Game in Northern Iraq

By Kenneth R. Timmerman
FrontPageMagazine.com | 8/23/2007


Over the past week, with Iranian shells raining down on Iraqi villages in Kurdish areas along the border zone in the north, Iran’s leaders have engaged the United States in a high stakes game that has gone virtually unreported in the elite media.

Iran has massed thousands of troops along its northwestern border in preparation for a ground assault against Iranian Kurdish fighters who have sought refuge in the rugged Qanbil mountains in northwestern Iraq.

On Tuesday, villagers found leaflets bearing the official Islamic Republic of Iran logo, ordering them to leave the area or face the consequences.

“Our enemies, mainly the Americans, are trying to plant security hurdles in our country (Iran),” the leaflets said. “They achieve this through using agents in the areas of Qandil and Khanira inside the Kurdish region. 'The authorities of the Islamic Republic of Iran will work on cleansing this area.”

Hundreds of Iraqis from the villages of Qandoul and Qal’at Diza, close to the Iranian border in the province of Sulaymanyah, fled as a result of the Iranian shelling, according to wire service accounts.

Should Iran be allowed to carry out its planned attack, it would amount to an overt aggression against its neighbor. But the potential damage is far worse, because of the deep U.S. engagement in Iraq.

A successful Iranian attack against opposition Kurds from the Party of Free Life of Kurdistan (known as PJAK) based in Iraq, will strike a triple blow against America.

Not only will the Iranians have violated Iraq’s sovereignty, guaranteed until now by the United States; they will have shown that despite the presence of 160,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, the United States “can do nothing” against Iran, as the founder of the Islamic Republic, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, liked to say.

Even worse: if the United States sits this one out, we will send a terrible message to Iranian opponents of the regime in Tehran that despite all our calls for “freedom” and “democracy” in Iran, we will not intervene to prevent them from being massacred, even when we have the opportunity and the forces in place to save them from certain death.

And yet, unless Congress and the White House react immediately, that is precisely what is going to happen.

An Iranian victory in northern Iraq will have far-reaching consequences, and will further embolden president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is engaged in political, military, and intelligence hardball with the United States on multiple fronts, including inside Iraq.

Just last week, U.S. forces arrested another “high-priority” Iranian Revolutionary Guards officer in Baghdad, and accused him of funneling aid to Iraqi insurgents.

U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Garver announced the arrest on August 15, and said that coalition forces “will continue their focused operations against unhelpful Iranian influence interfering in Iraq.”

An unnamed U.S. official said that the Iranian Guardsman was responsible for smuggling explosively-formed penetrators, Katyusha rockets and other weapons into Iraq, and “had direct ties to senior militant leaders and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps Quds Force.”

Another U.S. military spokesman. Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, told reporters in Iraq on Aug. 14 that Iran had recently provided 240 mm long-range rockets to insurgents in Iraq for attacks on U.S. forces.

"The 240 mm rocket is a large-caliber projectile that has been provided to militia extremists groups in the past along with a range of other weapons from Iranian sources," Bergner said.

Similar Iranian-made rockets I examined last summer in Haifa and in other northern Israel towns and cities had been fired against Israeli civilian targets by Hezbollah with warheads containing thousands of miniature ball-bearings, designed to kill and maim.

On May 25, PKK guerillas in Turkey derailed a train bound for Syria for Iran, ostensibly carrying construction materials. When prosecutors went through the wreckage they found an Iranian-made rocket launcher and 300 rockets bound for Hezbollah in Syria, according to Turkish press reports.

There is no way those weapons could have transited Turkey on the Turkish national railroad without someone in the Turkish government knowing what was going on.

Iran is banking on its secret “entente” with Turkey – to supply Hezbollah through Syria, and to smash the bases of each other’s opposition Kurds in Iraq - to deter the United States from any military intervention in northern Iraq.

The Turks have been threatening for months to go after the PKK, who have tens of thousands of fighters training in camps inside Iraq, along the Turkish border.

And so the Iranians have spread the rumor, which until now has been accepted at face value, that its own Kurdish dissidents (PJAK) are actually the Iranian branch of the PKK, which the U.S. has designated as an international terrorist organization.

The State Department took Turkey’s insistence that PJAK was allied with the PKK seriously enough that it refused to meet earlier this month with visiting PJAK leader, Rahman Haj Ahmadi, despite his open support for the U.S. military presence in Iraq and his identification with U.S. goals in the region.

Both the PKK and PJAK have training camps in the Qanbil mountain range in northern Iraq. But because of the difficult geography, and their different needs, they inhabit “different sides of the mountains,” Rahman Ahmadi told me in Washington.

“The PKK doesn’t need us,” he said. “They have tens of thousands of fighters, and hundreds of thousands of sympathizers.”

But Ahmadi acknowledges that PJAK and the PKK cooperate to a certain degree, if only to prevent clashes between their own fighters.

“The president of the Iraqi Kurdish Regional government, Massoud Barzani, also has an agreement with the PKK,” he told me. “Does that make Barzani a supporter of the PKK?”

This is not the first time the Turks have played us in Iraq. In 2003, on a flimsy pretext of domestic opposition, they successfully prevented the 4th Infantry Division from crossing Turkey to join coalition forces that liberated Iraq from Saddam Hussein.

We can sit by and allow Iran to violate Iraq’s sovereignty, defy the U.S. military, and smash a significant Iranian opposition group on the slim pretext that Iran is “merely” seeking to punish its own rebels, just as Turkey.

Or we can extend protection to the Iranian Kurds who have established training camps in the rugged mountains of northeastern Iraq, and inflict a double blow on Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps.

Clearly, the Iranians believe they can thumb their noses at the U.S. military. For more than a week, they have conducted intermittent shelling of Iraqi Kurdish villages in the general vicinity of suspected PJAK bases.

My Iranian sources tell me that the Iranians are hoping to expel PJAK from the area and replace them with Ansar al-Islam, the precursor group to al Qaeda in Iraq, “They want to send Saad Bin Laden, who is currently in Iran under Iranian government protection, into a new base inside Iraq,” one source told me.

Saad Bin Laden is Osama Bin Laden’s eldest son, who is widely viewed as the heir to his terrorist empire, should his father die. He was given refuge in Iran shortly after al Qaeda evacuated its bases in Afghanistan following the September 11 attacks.

PJAK is a natural ally of the United States. They seek to unite Iranians to overthrow the dictatorship of the clergy in Iran, and to work together to build a future secular democracy.

We don’t have to provide them weapons, or money, or training. But if we allow Iranian Revolutionary Guards troops to attack PJAK inside Iraq with impunity, we may as well pack up and leave – not just Iraq, but the entire region. Because we will have no credibility left.

If instead, if we seize this opportunity to smash an Iranian Revolutionary Guards offensive with massive force, we could send a message that will make Iran’s leaders think twice before messing with us again.

It’s about time we made Iran’s leaders pay a price for killing Americans and undermining America’s allies. Here is a terrific opportunity to get that job done.

FrontPage Magazine
baloney_detector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 01:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
Block Captain
 
Sally Numor's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana
Gender: Female
Posts: 353
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Points: 2,201, Level: 28
Points: 2,201, Level: 28 Points: 2,201, Level: 28 Points: 2,201, Level: 28
Level up: 29%, 99 Points needed
Level up: 29% Level up: 29% Level up: 29%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%

Given the fact the Kurds have invaded and fought Turkey, I think Iran is right to try to protect itself from US invasion through the use of Kurds.

I'm sorry, but Bush and Cheney have been pushing us to war with Iran for their oil for months....I just can't buy that this is anything but a CIA coup for the area and provocation is being attempted on the Iranians to get them to fight back so the US has an excuse to invade.....
Sally Numor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
Moderator
 
highway80west's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,172
Thanks: 545
Thanked 275 Times in 189 Posts

Points: 13,970, Level: 76
Points: 13,970, Level: 76 Points: 13,970, Level: 76 Points: 13,970, Level: 76
Level up: 77%, 80 Points needed
Level up: 77% Level up: 77% Level up: 77%
Activity: 74%
Activity: 74% Activity: 74% Activity: 74%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
Given the fact the Kurds have invaded and fought Turkey, I think Iran is right to try to protect itself from US invasion through the use of Kurds.

I'm sorry, but Bush and Cheney have been pushing us to war with Iran for their oil for months....I just can't buy that this is anything but a CIA coup for the area and provocation is being attempted on the Iranians to get them to fight back so the US has an excuse to invade.....
B.C. knows that the public will not back them if they invade Iran. That would be the biggest mistake in the entire existence of the present administration, whatever it is called.
__________________
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
highway80west is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
Council Member
 
baloney_detector's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 2
Thanked 54 Times in 23 Posts

Points: 5,331, Level: 46
Points: 5,331, Level: 46 Points: 5,331, Level: 46 Points: 5,331, Level: 46
Level up: 47%, 19 Points needed
Level up: 47% Level up: 47% Level up: 47%
Activity: 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
Given the fact the Kurds have invaded and fought Turkey, I think Iran is right to try to protect itself from US invasion through the use of Kurds.

I'm sorry, but Bush and Cheney have been pushing us to war with Iran for their oil for months....I just can't buy that this is anything but a CIA coup for the area and provocation is being attempted on the Iranians to get them to fight back so the US has an excuse to invade.....
Well, the Kurds in that region have been fighting for a separate Kurd nation for decades. So, their struggle against Iran (and Turkey and Iraq) isn't anything new.

But, if Iran were to attack Kurds in Iraq today, why shouldn't the US be responsible for their security...especially if the US is supposedly responsible for the security of Iraq in general, including stopping sectarian and Al Qaeda-related violence within Iraq?

(I'm curious, exactly how much oil has the US gotten from Iraq since March 2003 and how much oil will the US get from Iraq once the Iraqi Oil Law is finalized and in effect...that is over and above the level prior to this war? Since the US is getting their oil and all, as you imply it is, I would think you would have some evidence that supports this implied conclusion.)
baloney_detector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
Moderator
 
highway80west's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,172
Thanks: 545
Thanked 275 Times in 189 Posts

Points: 13,970, Level: 76
Points: 13,970, Level: 76 Points: 13,970, Level: 76 Points: 13,970, Level: 76
Level up: 77%, 80 Points needed
Level up: 77% Level up: 77% Level up: 77%
Activity: 74%
Activity: 74% Activity: 74% Activity: 74%

Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
Well, the Kurds in that region have been fighting for a separate Kurd nation for decades. So, their struggle against Iran (and Turkey and Iraq) isn't anything new.

But, if Iran were to attack Kurds in Iraq today, why shouldn't the US be responsible for their security...especially if the US is supposedly responsible for the security of Iraq in general, including stopping sectarian and Al Qaeda-related violence within Iraq?

(I'm curious, exactly how much oil has the US gotten from Iraq since March 2003 and how much oil will the US get from Iraq once the Iraqi Oil Law is finalized and in effect...that is over and above the level prior to this war? Since the US is getting their oil and all, as you imply it is, I would think you would have some evidence that supports this implied conclusion.)
Even if the US decides to go onto Iran, the size of the military would be taxed. I don't think we have enough soldiers to carry out any kind of mission involving Iran. Even the new recruits would not be ready to fight for a few months. God help the administration if they want to do a draft.
__________________
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
highway80west is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
Community Leader
 
forester814's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Gender: Female
Posts: 998
Thanks: 511
Thanked 286 Times in 139 Posts

Points: 6,173, Level: 51
Points: 6,173, Level: 51 Points: 6,173, Level: 51 Points: 6,173, Level: 51
Level up: 52%, 177 Points needed
Level up: 52% Level up: 52% Level up: 52%
Activity: 12%
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%

Send a message via Yahoo to forester814
Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west View Post
B.C. knows that the public will not back them if they invade Iran. That would be the biggest mistake in the entire existence of the present administration, whatever it is called.
And that is really saying something, given the staggering number of massive mistakes they have made!

I used to wonder why Bush's rating wouldn't ever go below 28%, no matter what he f*#%ed up here and abroad. Then I met my first real live fundamentalist Christian, and I understood: there is a huge segment of people in this country that will follow and support Bush literally no matter what he does, because he is an "openly pro-life, good Christian" president.
forester814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
Council Member
 
baloney_detector's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 2
Thanked 54 Times in 23 Posts

Points: 5,331, Level: 46
Points: 5,331, Level: 46 Points: 5,331, Level: 46 Points: 5,331, Level: 46
Level up: 47%, 19 Points needed
Level up: 47% Level up: 47% Level up: 47%
Activity: 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%

Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west View Post
Even if the US decides to go onto Iran, the size of the military would be taxed. I don't think we have enough soldiers to carry out any kind of mission involving Iran. Even the new recruits would not be ready to fight for a few months. God help the administration if they want to do a draft.
In my opinion, the regime in Iran is going to have to dealt with sooner or later.

And I have serious doubts that sanctions are going to have much of an effect on changing the Iranian regime's actions whereby they become a more responsible world power.

In a tactical military point of view, I believe a naval blockade of Iran would be the most effective "first action" in any possible US military confrontation with Iran since, without oil revenue, it's government will effectively grind to a halt.

And, I think the oil-producing Arab governments in the region would support this action since they could increase oil output to steady the fears of China and other nations who depend on Iranian oil and since those arab governments also fear the growing aspirations of the Iranian regime.
baloney_detector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
Moderator
 
highway80west's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,172
Thanks: 545
Thanked 275 Times in 189 Posts

Points: 13,970, Level: 76
Points: 13,970, Level: 76 Points: 13,970, Level: 76 Points: 13,970, Level: 76
Level up: 77%, 80 Points needed
Level up: 77% Level up: 77% Level up: 77%
Activity: 74%
Activity: 74% Activity: 74% Activity: 74%

Quote:
Originally Posted by forester814 View Post
And that is really saying something, given the staggering number of massive mistakes they have made!

I used to wonder why Bush's rating wouldn't ever go below 28%, no matter what he f*#%ed up here and abroad. Then I met my first real live fundamentalist Christian, and I understood: there is a huge segment of people in this country that will follow and support Bush literally no matter what he does, because he is an "openly pro-life, good Christian" president.
Didn't he ever say that he admitted his mistakes? I have not heard any.

I would think that he needs to get the opinion of the public first about any such invasion, rather than consult his generals. But I feel he is a stubborn man. I told RHS yesterday that although I am conservative, I can be middle of the road. I feel like voting democratic, and I would vote for Joe Biden. He does not seem to be making such noise though. Maybe that's the way he wants it. Let Hillary and Obama make their noise first.
__________________
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105
highway80west is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
Community Leader
 
forester814's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Gender: Female
Posts: 998
Thanks: 511
Thanked 286 Times in 139 Posts

Points: 6,173, Level: 51
Points: 6,173, Level: 51 Points: 6,173, Level: 51 Points: 6,173, Level: 51
Level up: 52%, 177 Points needed
Level up: 52% Level up: 52% Level up: 52%
Activity: 12%
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%

Send a message via Yahoo to forester814
Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west View Post
Didn't he ever say that he admitted his mistakes? I have not heard any.
Actually, during the 2004 presidential debates, he and Kerry were asked "What is the biggest mistake you have ever made?"

And Bush paused and said that he couldn't think of any mistakes he has made.

No wonder the loyal 28% think he's infallible!
forester814 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 02:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
SIMPLETON
 
fxashun's Avatar
 
Country:

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In my skin
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,480
Thanks: 113
Thanked 166 Times in 144 Posts

Points: 20,343, Level: 89
Points: 20,343, Level: 89 Points: 20,343, Level: 89 Points: 20,343, Level: 89
Level up: 90%, 7 Points needed
Level up: 90% Level up: 90% Level up: 90%
Activity: 100%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%

I don't care, any conflict with a nuclear power is some scary ass shit.

And as far Bush's 28% rating, if you can get people to smoke, do meth, crack and heroin with all the evidence that shows how f'd up it'll make you, there's a certain number of people that'll do and follow any f'n thing.
__________________
fxashun is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google

Thread Tools
Display Modes






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:36 PM.

DefendingTheTruth.com RSS2 Feed   Add to Google   Add to My Yahoo!   Add to My MSN
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0
Created by: Jon-Kingsbury.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 Release Candidate 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Proudly hosted by WireNine


Recommended Sites

Top Political Sites Poltical Topsites