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Health Care Debate and defend your thoughts on the current health care system. Compare and contrast the current health care system of the US to other countries.

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Old 09-15-2007, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Where has common sense gone?

I recall when my children were small their vaccines were reasonable. Vaccines that were readily available were also very affordable. If one could not afford the vaccines then the public clinics gave them for free.

Today we have outrageous cost of medical care for the most basic necessities that are heap up by to many insurance companies inflating their rates and clinics they are more willing to subscribe ineffective medications for the pharmecutical perks they recieve. Tax dollars support research for all can benefit and the insurance companies lobby against the basic good of the nations citizens for they can line their own pockets.

Hospitals and clinics vie for money and do not always prescribe what is best for the patients and their families.

The poor and working class are ripped both ways from all of the greed for the almighty dollar and disease spreads like wildfire each year as the weather changes and children return to school.

The poor recieve medical assistance yet are not getting the proper immunizations which could help eleviate the spread of rotaviruses and even the vaccines that prevents cervical cancer. When these children hit the classes and the playgrounds in the fall the spread starts and will not stop until school lets out. Along with improperly built and designed building ventilation systems you have those grimmy little hands and cup sharing practices every child faces. These diseases are taken home for the whole family gets a dose of the germs. Cervical cancer is high cost by the time it results in surgery or the loss of a loved one.

The working class has insurance but these companies are not all paying for the basic needs of those whom they collect their money from "The Insured". Again these many of these diseases can be prevented.

Wouldn't common sense say make these vaccinations mandatory and readily available for both publicly funded medical care and privately insured patients?

Price controls have to be in place for bulk medications that are an overall benefit to all of the citizens. Regular immunizations cost for my grandson recently were charged at over $800.00. Thirty years and inflation of over one hundred percent?

When I hit 70 and these children are the ones that are stepping up and in to take their turn at things. I would sure like to see them healthy. By not keeping health as a priority medical cost continue to escalate and everyone pays the bill while many insurance companies pay themselves and their investors regardless of the cost of thehealth of their insured.

When there are vaccines available for the overall health of all there is no reason all should not be afforded and made aware that they are available. Disclosure of associated risk is supposed to be made available with all medicines. Disclosure of all medicines available should also be mandatory. Our doctor tells us all medications available for any given treatment, he then gives us the choice. Instead of doctors looking for those vacation credits and perks offered by pharmecutical companies, they need to be truthful with their patients and disclose affordable alternatives.

I don't mind the doc driving a Ferrari but not at the expense of anyones health and well being.



New York Times

In Need of a Booster Shot; Rising Costs Make Doctors Balk at Giving Vaccines

By ANDREW POLLACK
Published: March 24, 2007
The nation's pediatricians, the foot soldiers in the campaign to vaccinate America's children, are starting to revolt.
The soaring cost and rising number of new vaccines, doctors say, make it increasingly difficult for them to buy the shots they give their patients. They also complain that insurers often do not reimburse them enough, so they can lose money on every dose they deliver.
As a result, some pediatricians are not offering the newest and most costly vaccines. And some public health experts say that if the situation worsens, it could lead to a breakdown in the nation's immunization program, with a rise in otherwise preventable diseases.
''We cannot pay for the vaccination of the American public any longer,'' said Dr. Dorothy A. Levine, a pediatrician in Stamford and New Canaan, Conn. ''We're not giving them with as much vigor as we should, and the main reason is financial.''
Dr. Levine, for instance, is not offering Gardasil, the new vaccine that prevents cervical cancer; it costs $360 for three shots. Nor is she giving shots of RotaTeq, the $190 vaccine against the diarrhea-causing rotavirus.
The situation underscores the role played in the United States by market dynamics in providing immunization, a public health service in many other countries.
About 85 percent of the nation's children get all or at least some of their inoculations from private physicians' offices, which operate as businesses. The federal and state governments pay for vaccines for about 55 percent of children, mainly poor ones. But even those government-subsidized vaccines are mainly administered by private doctors.
Private physicians have been taking on a greater role in immunization since a 1989 measles outbreak spurred efforts to increase vaccination rates. Now, however, ''we're worried about seeing a reverse trend,'' back to public health departments, said Dr. Howard D. Backer, chairman of the Association of Immunization Managers, a group of state vaccine officials.
To be sure, most pediatricians continue to offer most or all vaccines. And immunization rates for the older vaccines remain higher than ever. More than 90 percent of children get shots for polio, mumps and hepatitis B, for instance.
Merck, which makes both Gardasil and RotaTeq, says the problem is transitory and that most insurers are already paying for those products. It says that 70 percent of the largest pediatric practices are stocking Gardasil and 60 percent carry RotaTeq.
Michael F. Thomas, a senior vice president in Merck's vaccine division, defended the company's prices saying, ''Historically, vaccines have been undervalued.''
But some doctors are balking. Teri Perryman, a doctor in Kerrville, Tex., is not only avoiding Gardasil and RotaTeq, but also not offering the new meningitis vaccine, flu shots or new expensive combination products like one that combines the chickenpox vaccine with the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, according to her husband, Kevin Perryman, who helps manage the practice.
Other doctors are asking patients to pay upfront or, in a new twist, are sending them to the drugstore. Typically, physicians have not written prescriptions for vaccines, as they do for drugs, but instead buy and store them, recouping their money when they give the vaccines to patients.
Michele Rabito of Douglaston, Queens, was given prescriptions for the first two Gardasil shots for her 15-year-old daughter, Paige. Her pediatrician would not provide the vaccine himself because Ms. Rabito's insurance did not cover it.
The pharmacy took a day or two to fill each prescription because it did not normally carry Gardasil, Ms. Rabito said. And it charged her $185 a dose, about $65 more than the wholesale cost. Ms. Rabito then brought each vial back to the doctor's office, where her daughter was vaccinated.
''It's a lot of trouble and a lot of money,'' she said, although she added that she did not blame her pediatrician.
Getting a vaccination was not always so difficult. In 1980, it cost only about $23, or $59 adjusted for inflation, for the seven shots and four oral doses needed to immunize a child, according to data provided by Dr. Thomas Saari, who is emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Wisconsin.
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Old 09-15-2007, 01:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rod View Post
I recall when my children were small their vaccines were reasonable. Vaccines that were readily available were also very affordable. If one could not afford the vaccines then the public clinics gave them for free.

Today we have outrageous cost of medical care for the most basic necessities that are heap up by to many insurance companies inflating their rates and clinics they are more willing to subscribe ineffective medications for the pharmecutical perks they recieve. Tax dollars support research for all can benefit and the insurance companies lobby against the basic good of the nations citizens for they can line their own pockets.

Hospitals and clinics vie for money and do not always prescribe what is best for the patients and their families.

The poor and working class are ripped both ways from all of the greed for the almighty dollar and disease spreads like wildfire each year as the weather changes and children return to school.

The poor recieve medical assistance yet are not getting the proper immunizations which could help eleviate the spread of rotaviruses and even the vaccines that prevents cervical cancer. When these children hit the classes and the playgrounds in the fall the spread starts and will not stop until school lets out. Along with improperly built and designed building ventilation systems you have those grimmy little hands and cup sharing practices every child faces. These diseases are taken home for the whole family gets a dose of the germs. Cervical cancer is high cost by the time it results in surgery or the loss of a loved one.

The working class has insurance but these companies are not all paying for the basic needs of those whom they collect their money from "The Insured". Again these many of these diseases can be prevented.

Wouldn't common sense say make these vaccinations mandatory and readily available for both publicly funded medical care and privately insured patients?

Price controls have to be in place for bulk medications that are an overall benefit to all of the citizens. Regular immunizations cost for my grandson recently were charged at over $800.00. Thirty years and inflation of over one hundred percent?

When I hit 70 and these children are the ones that are stepping up and in to take their turn at things. I would sure like to see them healthy. By not keeping health as a priority medical cost continue to escalate and everyone pays the bill while many insurance companies pay themselves and their investors regardless of the cost of thehealth of their insured.

When there are vaccines available for the overall health of all there is no reason all should not be afforded and made aware that they are available. Disclosure of associated risk is supposed to be made available with all medicines. Disclosure of all medicines available should also be mandatory. Our doctor tells us all medications available for any given treatment, he then gives us the choice. Instead of doctors looking for those vacation credits and perks offered by pharmecutical companies, they need to be truthful with their patients and disclose affordable alternatives.

I don't mind the doc driving a Ferrari but not at the expense of anyones health and well being.



New York Times

In Need of a Booster Shot; Rising Costs Make Doctors Balk at Giving Vaccines

By ANDREW POLLACK
Published: March 24, 2007
The nation's pediatricians, the foot soldiers in the campaign to vaccinate America's children, are starting to revolt.
The soaring cost and rising number of new vaccines, doctors say, make it increasingly difficult for them to buy the shots they give their patients. They also complain that insurers often do not reimburse them enough, so they can lose money on every dose they deliver.
As a result, some pediatricians are not offering the newest and most costly vaccines. And some public health experts say that if the situation worsens, it could lead to a breakdown in the nation's immunization program, with a rise in otherwise preventable diseases.
''We cannot pay for the vaccination of the American public any longer,'' said Dr. Dorothy A. Levine, a pediatrician in Stamford and New Canaan, Conn. ''We're not giving them with as much vigor as we should, and the main reason is financial.''
Dr. Levine, for instance, is not offering Gardasil, the new vaccine that prevents cervical cancer; it costs $360 for three shots. Nor is she giving shots of RotaTeq, the $190 vaccine against the diarrhea-causing rotavirus.
The situation underscores the role played in the United States by market dynamics in providing immunization, a public health service in many other countries.
About 85 percent of the nation's children get all or at least some of their inoculations from private physicians' offices, which operate as businesses. The federal and state governments pay for vaccines for about 55 percent of children, mainly poor ones. But even those government-subsidized vaccines are mainly administered by private doctors.
Private physicians have been taking on a greater role in immunization since a 1989 measles outbreak spurred efforts to increase vaccination rates. Now, however, ''we're worried about seeing a reverse trend,'' back to public health departments, said Dr. Howard D. Backer, chairman of the Association of Immunization Managers, a group of state vaccine officials.
To be sure, most pediatricians continue to offer most or all vaccines. And immunization rates for the older vaccines remain higher than ever. More than 90 percent of children get shots for polio, mumps and hepatitis B, for instance.
Merck, which makes both Gardasil and RotaTeq, says the problem is transitory and that most insurers are already paying for those products. It says that 70 percent of the largest pediatric practices are stocking Gardasil and 60 percent carry RotaTeq.
Michael F. Thomas, a senior vice president in Merck's vaccine division, defended the company's prices saying, ''Historically, vaccines have been undervalued.''
But some doctors are balking. Teri Perryman, a doctor in Kerrville, Tex., is not only avoiding Gardasil and RotaTeq, but also not offering the new meningitis vaccine, flu shots or new expensive combination products like one that combines the chickenpox vaccine with the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, according to her husband, Kevin Perryman, who helps manage the practice.
Other doctors are asking patients to pay upfront or, in a new twist, are sending them to the drugstore. Typically, physicians have not written prescriptions for vaccines, as they do for drugs, but instead buy and store them, recouping their money when they give the vaccines to patients.
Michele Rabito of Douglaston, Queens, was given prescriptions for the first two Gardasil shots for her 15-year-old daughter, Paige. Her pediatrician would not provide the vaccine himself because Ms. Rabito's insurance did not cover it.
The pharmacy took a day or two to fill each prescription because it did not normally carry Gardasil, Ms. Rabito said. And it charged her $185 a dose, about $65 more than the wholesale cost. Ms. Rabito then brought each vial back to the doctor's office, where her daughter was vaccinated.
''It's a lot of trouble and a lot of money,'' she said, although she added that she did not blame her pediatrician.
Getting a vaccination was not always so difficult. In 1980, it cost only about $23, or $59 adjusted for inflation, for the seven shots and four oral doses needed to immunize a child, according to data provided by Dr. Thomas Saari, who is emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Wisconsin.
I for one find it very disturbing that many children here in the US are uninsured.

Affordable Health Insurance > Number Of Uninsured US Residents Increases By 2.2M

I just think that these kids are getting a bum deal - especially when it's not their fault. . .
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Just another reason (amongst the seemingly endless amount of reasons) why Universal Health Care needs to happen in America immediately. For us to continue down the path we are currently on would be foolish.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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We do need drastic change to our healthcare, but we shouldn't adopt the healthcare of for instance, Canada.. We should try and make healthcare affordable!!
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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We have seen Hilary Clinton on her proposal of health insurance. But even if she succeeds in getting it done, it would be like any cheap health insurance:

Pay a low premium like at $125 a month, with a very high deductible at something like $5K.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi...id=CA-060707-1
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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We do need drastic change to our healthcare, but we shouldn't adopt the healthcare of for instance, Canada.. We should try and make healthcare affordable!!

Why? Canada (or Canadia as I like to call it) ranks higher than the U.S. in health care provided. And it is affordable (free). Please elaborate to as why you think that would be a negative thing?
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hevusa View Post
Why? Canada (or Canadia as I like to call it) ranks higher than the U.S. in health care provided. And it is affordable (free). Please elaborate to as why you think that would be a negative thing?
For people who don't want socialized medicine they constantly have horror stories about people who can't get the care they want.

Well, hell, we have that here!!!

I was watching LA Ink last night, and Pixie needed a tonscillectomy, but it would cost her 4-5 thousand dollars!!! Plus time off work.

She couldn't afford that. She asked about insurance, but since she was already sick, they wouldn't cover her.

What do you do?
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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With lawyers and stuff around, there is no such thing as "affordable" health care. It costs a lot to make doctors and their insurance is out of control. Somebody is gonna pay out the ass for medical care no matter what the "system" is.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hevusa View Post
Why? Canada (or Canadia as I like to call it) ranks higher than the U.S. in health care provided. And it is affordable (free). Please elaborate to as why you think that would be a negative thing?
I sometimes hear the right wing wackos on talk radio moaning about "socialised medicine" (love that expression) in Canada, and how there may be a wait to get certain procedures done.

Of course they don't talk about how long Americans without insurance have to wait for the same procedure. Or if they have to sell the house or end up in bankruptcy to pay for it.

They also talk about Canadians who come to the US for treatment. Wealthy Canadians presumably.

They don't mention the Americans who go to Canada and buy forged Canadian SS cards and pose as Canadians to get free treatment. Or the elderly Americans who buy their prescription medications from Canada. Or Americans who go to Mexico for affordable treatment.

I think health care is the one area that cannot be left to market forces, because the element of choice is missing.

Nobody chooses to get sick, especially not poor people.

Hillary faces a helluva battle to get this through. And the Republican candidates are all bought and paid for by the insurance industry.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post

I think health care is the one area that cannot be left to market forces, because the element of choice is missing.

Nobody chooses to get sick, especially not poor people.
There is no market for the sick as insurance companies only desire healthy customers.

I find this particular quote disturbing:

"Compulsory sickness insurance...is a variety of socialized medicine or state medicine and possesses the evils inherent in any politically controlled system. It is contrary to American tradition and is the first and most dangerous step in the direction of complete state socialism. The American Medical Association rejects any such scheme as a method of the distribution of medical care." - Editorial from The Journal of the American Medical Association, Dec. 1948

Living healthy in the US with universal healthcare is NOT contrary to American tradition. The fear of "socialism" seems too blinding to further justify the current situation of healthcare in the US.
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