Defending the Truth

Today as I was leaving the kiss-and-drop lane at the high school where my son is a student, I decided to turn on the radio.

And a song came on K-Love. It was about the cross. I began to listen to the words, and knowing it, started to even sing along some. Then it hit me! I thought about this cross of Jesus. I thought about the said sacrifice. Of how he laid down his life. And I queried in my soul, "Is this message of the cross that God committed suicide?"

Did God according to fundamental principles, become man, and take the dismal notion, "I don't want to live if living is without you." ?
Was there no other way for the Almighty and All-knowing God to effect salvation for man? And did He not do this to himself? For even the Bible says that he laid down his own life.

Does one ever truly look at the cross of Christ without feeling or at the very least, remembering a guilt? And doesn't that guilt in part, maintain the relationship in many Christians lives and service rather than the pure and unabashed love that is freely given?

I have come to explore the thought processes of suicide, and have come to the conclusion that it is a very selfish act. And controlling.
I know in bygone days how I have exalted the cross of Christ for the selflessness of the Lord. But in further reflection today, I am wondering if others have ever wrestled with these other negative thoughts I am having today.
Thoughts of a morbid gospel.

I am sure that these thoughts are springing up from my emotional center rather than my reasonable self. Still they must be dealt with and I am daring to gain understanding in my relationship with God as well as with others.

OhDear

OD,

Good thoughts, and I think you just pointed out one of the major problems with Christianity as it has become (rather that what Jesus intended it to actually be.)

Jesus, in his station as Christ, manifested God. He was not God incarnate. Literal incarnation would not be possible, as God is exalted above all that there is.

Now, speaking of heresy... let me compare Christ on the cross to "Star Wars".... LOL.

In the movie, remember the part where Obi-Wan tells Darth Vader -- "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." And then allows Darth to strike him down?

That's what the crucifixion means to me. By giving up the physical form of Jesus of Nazereth, the man, Christ was able to be fully manifest in the spiritual sense. And, well, we've seen the results, the spirit of Christ has gone on to hold sway over billions, and changed countless lives. Far, far more than He ever could have done in physical form.

His enemies foolishly thought they had "defeated" him by killing his physical body. They just didn't get it. His real power was the full manifestation of his spirit... which his physical death on the cross allowed.

I hear ya on that track, Mytie... Kinda like this verse from the Bible:

Quote:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit

I even saw that in my more fundamental daze when I saw a very cool kid's movie called The Red Balloon. If others here have not seen it, let me highly recommend it. It is only about a half hour in length and there is no sound to it. The entire story is told by watching a boy and a red balloon that follows him everywhere. The thing is that some bullies trounce on this red balloon and yet after the red balloon meets it's pitiful fate under the mean feet of these surly boys, and the one who had known the red balloon's companionship is saddened, the sky fills with unimaginable color as thousands of balloons take flight, ascending in response to the event.

But just come down to it, I am struggling today with such a concept and with the idea that the cross as extolled in Christian faith is that of a manipulative God. I am sure I will feel differently a few days or weeks from now. I will probably even repent. I just now see a similarity between the suicidal and the sacrificial...

OhDear

We all examine the words and our own hearts at times in our life Oh Dear. Sucicide verses murder?

Just a thought for you. If I know in my heart in advance an event that will take place and I did my best to warn others. Yet I knew my creator created me for this purpose to warn and educate others, am I the guilty one? Or are those who did me harm the guilty?

Rod, I am hurting and want to understand what you are asking...

I am not sure I am knowing what you are getting at.

I say in advance that I am hurting, so that folk know I am not trying to be argumentative for the sake of arguing...

OhDear

OD, I do not believe in the 'fundamental principle' that God became Christ. It isn't ever stated in the Bible, and is refuted over and over again by Christ himself.

What did happen is God gave his only son as a sacrifice to save the world.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus knew what was coming, and though afraid, went to the cross secure in the knowledge that he would again be in heaven sitting next to his Father.

So then God as in God the Son: Jesus did not commit suicide.
But then God asin God the Father did murder His Son.

For us?

OhDear

Murder is a human concept. Jesus, in heaven, is an angel, if you will, and can't really die. His physical body might be destroyed, but his essence is still alive and more powerful then ever.

If Christ hadn't died on the cross, do you think that his words would be followed today?

Bear with me here, Knot and others.

It would also be said then that we can't really die either. Just our physical bodies, yes? For we are counted to be spirits as well, in Christian faith. In fact, in many religious teachings in the world.

That being true, there would be no cause for concern about homicides and/or suicides...

OhDear

Not all Christian sects believe in the concept of heaven and hell. Some believe that when you die you sleep until the second coming, at which time you will awaken and live on a paradise earth with Jesus reigning here as his Father does in heaven.

That being said, I think you are trying to put human emotion and reasoning into a completely spiritual being.

If a person asks another to kill them, is it murder?