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| Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman. |
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10-12-2007, 10:15 AM
| #1 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| *Premium Member*   Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Haven, CT Gender:  Posts: 8,758 Country: 
  |  Perfect Example of Hate Crime Law Working!! This guy is convicted of attacking gay guy - and he's gay! But, he specifically targeted a gay man, which makes it a hate crime. Nobody is not protected by hate crime legislature!  'Gay' Man Convicted Of Hate Crime In Sandy Death by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff Posted: October 11, 2007 - 6:30 pm ET (New York City) A man who claimed he was a closeted gay has been found guilty of manslaughter as a hate crime in the death of Michael Sandy, a gay man who was robbed, beaten, and chased onto a highway where he was run down. Anthony Fortunato, 21, is the second man to be convicted in Sandy's death. A third man, Ilya Shurov, 21, is awaiting trial. A fourth, Gary Timmins, 17, pleaded guilty to attempted robbery and testified against his buddies. Jurors in Fortunato's trial were told that he had suggested to his buddies using a gay Internet dating site to lure a man to a secluded park and rob him because gays wouldn't fight back. That man turned out to be Sandy (pictured), but the plot went wrong and Sandy ended up dead. Fortunato arranged to meet Sandy at the far end of a parking lot at Plumb Beach, a well-known gay cruising spot in Brooklyn October 8, 2006. When he arrived he was set upon by the others. Sandy bolted for the nearby Belt Parkway with his attackers in close pursuit. They caught up with him in one lane of the highway and as Sandy broke free he was struck by a car, sustaining massive head injuries. The 28 year old died a week later after his family instructed doctors to take him off a life-support machine. John Fox, 20, was convicted last week. (story) He and Fortunato face up to 25 years behind bars. Jurors deliberated for four days before convicting Fortunato. At issue was his claim that he should not face a hate crime enhancement because like Sandy he is gay. (story) Following the delivery of the verdict jury foreman Eric Zaccar said no one in the jury room wanted to impose the hate crime portion of the indictment because they felt that in the case of Fortunato it should not apply. But, Zaccar told the New York Times, the judge's instructions made it clear that if they found Fortunato guilty of manslaughter they must also find him guilty of a hate crime under New York State law. Fortunato took the stand in his own defense last week, telling jurors that he was living a double life and wanted to come out to his friends - Fox and Shurov. Fortunato testified that he thought if he hooked up with a gay man, got some marijuana and got high with his friends he could better judge their reactions to getting high "with a homosexual." Asked by his attorney if he were gay, Fortunato said: "I could be homosexual or bisexual. ... I was leading two complete double lives." To back up his claims he is gay or bi, three older men who claimed to have sex with Fortunato also took the stand to testify for him. All three said they met Fortunato through internet chat rooms. Two of them said that when Fortunato arrived at their homes he was wearing a bra and women's panties. "To my shock he was wearing ladies' undergarments, he had a bra, if I remember correctly, and a G-string," one of the men, Henry Rudolph testified. *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance. Bigotry is a social disease. Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage." | |||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 10:35 AM
| #2 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| SIMPLETON  Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In my skin Gender: Posts: 10,395 Country:
| "Working" my ass. This specifically what Myt was talking about in his last few posts on the subject. Following the delivery of the verdict jury foreman Eric Zaccar said no one in the jury room wanted to impose the hate crime portion of the indictment because they felt that in the case of Fortunato it should not apply. But, Zaccar told the New York Times, the judge's instructions made it clear that if they found Fortunato guilty of manslaughter they must also find him guilty of a hate crime under New York State law. These laws negated part of the purpose of the jury in the first place. Additionally if you can convict a gay man of a "hate crime" for killing another gay man, doesn't that mean that almost all crime qualifies as a "hate crime"? Most violent crime is committed by people of the same race. This is my new signature. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 10:39 AM
| #3 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Council Member   Join Date: May 2007 Location: Wyoming Gender: Posts: 1,815 Country:
| Are you trying to imply that the dude would have gotten off with, say, a small fine and unsupervised probation had the "hate crime" law not been in place? Seems to me, pre-existing laws would have done pretty much the same thing. This is a case where we have: *Pre-meditation. *Pre-meditated malice toward the victim. *A clear, pre-meditated willingness to do violence toward the victim. *Conspiracy and deliberate deciet that led directly to the death of another human being. If you ask me, he's damn lucky he got only manslaughter. If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields | |||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 01:42 PM
| #4 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned  Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Gender: Posts: 11,893 Country: 
| This case shows just how ridiculous hate crime legislation is! Does this gay guy hate all gay guys including himself? Is he sending a message of intimidation to himself? If it wasn't so tragic it would be laughable. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 01:44 PM
| #5 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Gender: Posts: 11,893 Country:
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A guy wearing a bra and a G-string?? Face it - this guy is sick and needs psychiatric help and some heavy medication. Why does the G & L movement ally itself with weirdos like this? | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 02:33 PM
| #6 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| A Funny Fellow  Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Gender: Posts: 6,536 Country:
 | It's sure a good thing we have hate crime laws, otherwise he would have gotten off scot-free! | |||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 04:15 PM
| #7 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| SIMPLETON Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In my skin Gender: Posts: 10,395 Country:
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Jury Acquits Eight in Boot Camp Death - AOL News This is my new signature. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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10-12-2007, 04:56 PM
| #8 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Gender: Posts: 11,893 Country:
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So sad that 14 year old black boys aren't one of those protected classes with special legal benefits. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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10-13-2007, 12:33 AM
| #9 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Senator   Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,836
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Obviously, even a homophobic gay man can be guilty of a hate crime, so it destroys that pretense. And I think Tristan's point should have been obvious to anybody who cared to argue the ACTUAL point with his initial statement, which obviously needs to be repeated cause nobody listened the first time.... TristanRobin: This guy is convicted of attacking gay guy - and he's gay! But, he specifically targeted a gay man, which makes it a hate crime. Nobody is not protected by hate crime legislature! Are you trying to imply that your question, and what Tristan actually said, are the same thing??? ============================ And on another note, I see the standard strawman argument coming from others on the whole "would he have gotten off free" blah, blah, blah ... Just out of curiousity, has ANYBODY on this board EVER argued that hate crime legislation is needed to ensure that a guilty verdict is handed down? Cause if not, would all of you kindly knock it off with the strawman? One of these days it would be nice if "some" people could actually argue the SUBSTANCE of the argument, instead of insisting that they need to change it to something else in order to pretend they have a point. "(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish." -- Jon Stewart "Please don't judge others by your own standards." -- Garysher  | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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10-13-2007, 09:54 AM
| #10 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| A Funny Fellow Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Gender: Posts: 6,536 Country:
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