Today is the anniversary of Roe V. Wade..

OKgrannie · 01-21-2008, 10:14 PM

Today is the anniversary of Roe v. Wade...
And few of you can remember a time when abortion was criminal, so try to imagine....

Suzanne Grossman: Thank You, Justice Blackmun - Politics on The Huffington Post

.. the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion in the U.S. 35 years ago and allowed women like me to grow up with the sense of autonomy about our bodies. While films like Juno and Knocked Up remind us that the a-word may not be feel-good cinematic material, Hollywood is not real life. The fact is half of the annual 6 million pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended, and 1.3 million of these end in abortion.

Like other women born after 1973, I rely on history to understand what life was like before Roe v. Wade. There is a low-budget documentary called Leona's Sister Gerri that helps me connect to that time. It unravels the story of a photograph of an anonymous woman lying face down in a pool of blood on a motel floor, dead after a botched abortion. She became an icon for the pro-choice movement when Ms. magazine published her image. The film makes Gerri Santoro into the story of a person, not a coat hanger. We learn through her that women went to unimaginable lengths to not be pregnant.

Women in many parts of the world continue to do so. I have spent time in Ireland where abortion is illegal. There is a collective understanding in Ireland that women have abortions, just not on morally pure Irish soil. They jump through government hoops to receive information and appointments in England, at least those who can afford the time and money necessary do so. This, however, is not so different from women in the U.S. who are poor, under 18 or who live hundreds of miles from clinics. For these women, abortion may as well be illegal.

Nevertheless, abortion is legal in this country because the majority of people think it should be, and enough people, thankfully, recall a time when it wasn't. On this anniversary of Roe v. Wade, I want to give thanks to the men and women who make this choice possible -- to doctors, to clinic workers, to advocates and activists, to lawmakers and politicians who are brave enough to stand up to "pro-life" rhetoric, to all of those who fought for abortion rights before 1973, and finally to Justice Harry Blackmun, the author of Roe v. Wade. He received hate mail for the rest of his life as a result of that decision, but for thousands of women he is a hero. He is certainly one of mine.
__________________

Grace · 01-22-2008, 04:54 PM

Yea, thanks for the willful murder of countless innocents. May God show you more mercy than you've shown them. But dont hold your breath.

OhDear · 01-22-2008, 06:41 PM

Strange thing...

Child abuse stats are higher now that there is no need to birth "unwanted" children.

Also juvenile crimes have risen since then too, and yet women with reproductive freedom do not have to birth "unwanted" children anymore. So where did all these juvenile delinquents come from?

Hmmm. Is abortion really working???

OhDear

CrazyFlamingos · 01-22-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

Strange thing...

Child abuse stats are higher now that there is no need to birth "unwanted" children.

Also juvenile crimes have risen since then too, and yet women with reproductive freedom do not have to birth "unwanted" children anymore. So where did all these juvenile delinquents come from?

Hmmm. Is abortion really working???

OhDear

Reported child abuse is up. I do not believe that child abuse is any more prevalent than it was 35 years ago. For instance, in many places today teachers are required to report their suspicions of parental abuse. 35 years ago teachers "minded their own business" when a child came to school with repeated bruises.

You and I are of an age so surely you know that as well as I do.

And do you have any figures to prove that juvenile crime is up?

I was reading an article just the other day that said that there has been a decline in violent crimes over the last 35 years.

waitingtables · 01-22-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Yea, thanks for the willful murder of countless innocents. May God show you more mercy than you've shown them. But dont hold your breath.

So your God is not merciful? Are you a Christian? And how many deaths have been amassed in the name of God? There are plenty of issues that have a real effect on those who are already born, for there to be such vehement concern over what a woman does in the privacy of her own life, between herself, her doctor, and her God if she believes in one. I think it really comes down to believing that women really aren't supposed to assert their individual rights and share equal status in society. That they couldn't possibly know what is best for themselves and their families if they have them. You'll never stop women from having abortions, making them legal only keeps women from dying from them.

OhDear · 01-22-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

Reported child abuse is up. I do not believe that child abuse is any more prevalent than it was 35 years ago. For instance, in many places today teachers are required to report their suspicions of parental abuse. 35 years ago teachers "minded their own business" when a child came to school with repeated bruises.

You and I are of an age so surely you know that as well as I do.

And do you have any figures to prove that juvenile crime is up?

I was reading an article just the other day that said that there has been a decline in violent crimes over the last 35 years.

I would have to do some digging CF to find stat charts and comparative analysis. Perhaps you too might cite the article you read?

I would think that whatever the stats show, there ought to be, not an increase, not even the same or nearly so, even given that reporting is mandatory now among certain children's service workers like teachers. I would think that if abortion has gained the momentum of one prevailing intended purpose often cited by the pro-choice people, there would be an astonishingly and marked decline in child abuse cases, child neglect cases and children who resort to living delinquent. IF indeed the legalization of abortion has curbed the high number of unwanted children. That purpose often stated, as it was in the OP on the responsibility thread in this same forum.

OhDear

CrazyFlamingos · 01-22-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

I would have to do some digging CF to find stat charts and comparative analysis. Perhaps you too might cite the article you read?

I would think that whatever the stats show, there ought to be, not an increase, not even the same or nearly so, even given that reporting is mandatory now among certain children's service workers like teachers. I would think that if abortion has gained the momentum of one prevailing intended purpose often cited by the pro-choice people, there would be an astonishingly and marked decline in child abuse cases, child neglect cases and children who resort to living delinquent. IF indeed the legalization of abortion has curbed the high number of unwanted children. That purpose often stated, as it was in the OP on the responsibility thread in this same forum.

OhDear

I looked for but could not find the article citing a decrease in violent crime.

But here is a little something from factcheck.org.

Quote:

By another official measure, crime decreased dramatically since 1973 in both categories. TheBureau of Justice Statistics' (BJS) National Crime Victimization Survey shows that crime rates in 2003 are at the lowest levels recorded since the survey's inception, which coincidentally was the year Roe was decided.According to this annual survey, the number of people saying they were victims of property crime dropped steadily after Roe to, most recently, about 69 percent below 1973 levels. Meanwhile, the number of people who say they were victimized by violent crime has decreased by 53 percent since 1973 . Furthermore, by this measure the rate of violent crime was actually stable between 1973 and 1977, the first several years following Roe .
FactCheck.org: Abortion Distortions

AND

Quote:

Actually, the suicide rate for women has dropped by one-third since Roe was decided. According to the Center for Disease Control, the rate was 6.5 per every 100,000 women in 1973, and had fallen to 4.06 by 2001, the most recent year on record.
FactCheck.org: Abortion Distortions

Now how about those juvenile crime figures you were talking about?

CrazyFlamingos · 01-22-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

I would think that whatever the stats show, there ought to be, not an increase, not even the same or nearly so, even given that reporting is mandatory now among certain children's service workers like teachers. I would think that if abortion has gained the momentum of one prevailing intended purpose often cited by the pro-choice people, there would be an astonishingly and marked decline in child abuse cases, child neglect cases and children who resort to living delinquent.

Why?

I could name you at least 3 children who were abused 35 years or so ago and it was never reported. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, I believe that is more like 6 or 7. And that is just people close to my own age and within my circle of acquaintances.

How many millions more were there that neither you nor I have any way of knowing about?

There are no reliable statistics for that time because many, many cases were never reported. You might as well try to compare the number of donuts consumed in the U.S. to the number of starfish in the ocean. Your statistics would be just as reliable.

Grace · 01-23-2008, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

So your God is not merciful?

He is

Quote:

Are you a Christian?

I am

Quote:

And how many deaths have been amassed in the name of God?

Couldnt say. I bet there has been more deaths in the name of abortion though. Besides what the hell are you trying to sell me here? Are you saying Im for people killing in the name of God??

Quote:

There are plenty of issues that have a real effect on those who are already born, for there to be such vehement concern over what a woman does in the privacy of her own life, between herself, her doctor, and her God if she believes in one.

Yes, there are plenty of issues, but none are more important than the protection of innocent life. "What ye do unto the least of me, you have done unto me" Or " Its better for you to tie a milestone around your neck and cast yourself into the sea, then to harm a child"

Quote:

I think it really comes down to believing that women really aren't supposed to assert their individual rights and share equal status in society.

I think the fact that you feel that way means one of two things. Either #1 you have been brain washed by the MILLIONs of dollars spent in "Pro choice" movment, and cant plainly see that words like "equal status, individual rights, choice, ect ect mean nothing more than MURDER.

Or #2 your just a evil person, with no problem endorcing the shedding of innocent blood. Either case, like I said, may God show you more mercy than you have shown the children. Based on what the Father has to say about these little ones, dont hold your breath. Repent before its to late.

Quote:

That they couldn't possibly know what is best for themselves and their families if they have them. You'll never stop women from having abortions, making them legal only keeps women from dying from them.

I'll never be able to stop all kinds of evil in this world, with abortion at the top of the list. But I will always speak for truth, and for love of the innocent before all.

To me any women that would rather kill her child with a coat hanger, than to birth the child, I have no pitty for. If she dies from it, she is just reaping what she has sown.

OhDear · 01-23-2008, 05:40 AM

CF, I don't mind saying, if I am wrong, that I am...

Still, I do not see abortion ushering in to our society a stronger youth. And if children now are born only out of truly being wanted, I would believe to see most young people having that foundation of self-worth that comes from parental love.

OhDear